V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

[MercGuy]

I was reviewing some literature about the 115 e-tec and it occurred to me that Evenrude has always built V4's while Merc has tended to build inline engines (my Merc 115 is an inline 4).

Is there any advantage or disadvantage to either design ? I'm not going to buy anything, but I was just curious on what may have prompted each manufacture to choose the course that they did.

Thanks !

 

[Silvertip]

Re: V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

Just like women -- do you like them tall and skinny or short and wide? Either way both give you grief!

 

[F_R]

Re: V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

The V-4 was a great breakthrough in large engines when OMC developed it in 1958. It was a shorter (lower), more ridged motor, compared to Merc's inline six. The V-4 was also a more expensive way to build one, requiring a great investment in tooling and machines. All Merc had to do to build a six was stack two more cylinders on what they already had, and could use the same machines to build them. The second generation of OMC V-4s introduced more efficient crankcases, doubling the horsepower in 1964-65, with about the same external size. The third generation, 1968 brought even better crankcase design and actually smaller external size with more horsepower at reduced fuel consumption. It's been a long road from there to where we are now. I haven't even mentioned the issues of balance, environment, and a long other list.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

I think Silvertip's answer was right on as usual fer him, and I don't know as much as these aces here but I will share the Merc side of the story.

As a kid I was always a Johnnyrude fan as me relatives fished commercially in Alaska and refered to Mercs as "Black Boat Anchors", (they were painted black in the early 1960's). Some of the old white Merc inlines had direct reverse and were known as "dock busters", but the Mercs were always very fast.


Me father had a 15 HP Rude, (inline 2) that was a very good engine, and later a 35 HP Johnny, (inline 2), also very good egine.

In the mid 1960s we bought a Merc 500, (inline 4), which was the point corntrolled Thunderbolt ignition and it would drain the battery arrrrrrg!!! In 1967 the big Mercs 950 and 1100, (inline6s) went to triger fired CD ignitions that set the standard the others followed eventually. Me first Merc was a 1968 1250 with the thunderbolt battery fired CDI, and it was very dependable and VERY fast, (changed me mind about Mercs).

As F-R said the large Johnnyrudes followed the v strategy at greater tooling expense, and were always behind in the HP race that raged in the 1960's and 1970's. Those Rudes were real big heavy hogs, and they didn't corncentrate on the ignitions or exhaust through the prop as the Mercs did, and they were nowhere near as purdy or fast.

They were MUCH better in salt water then the Mercs so fishermen favored 'em, and they then had the loop charge breakthrough in the late 1960s which really helped their mid power range 3 cyl engines run all over the mid range Mercs which remained inlines. The Mercs barely managed to stay ahead in HP, into the early 1970s when both then went to bigger v-6s and the final pre prop rated inlines at ther max power were the 1977 1500xs with 155HP and the loop charged Johnnyrudes v4s peaked at 140 HP both very good engines and similar cubic inches (99.x). The Rude was about 30 lbs heavier as well, but as F-R said the center of gravity was lower then those "Towers of Power". The Rudes finally streamlined their mid sections and lower units and did the thru prop exhaust which looked much better then those 1960s v-4 hogs.

The big inline Mercs outran the Rudes but it was fairly close, and the bigger OMC v-6 was a killer, with thru prop exhaust, but so was the "Black max".

Hope ya liked the read.

Me overpriced $.02. JR

 

[coolguy147]

Re: V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

well back to acualy title question other then ur history. i ehar that the mercs were very good in torque since the fact that they were inlines. but then the evinrude johnson company claimed to be the low friction design dont know why this matter

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

well back to acualy title question other then ur history. i ehar that the mercs were very good in torque since the fact that they were inlines. but then the evinrude johnson company claimed to be the low friction design dont know why this matter

Sorry I can't understand what yer sayin' or askin'.

Did ya do that on purpose?

Silvertip answered the origional question better then any of us. N' I though I acknowledged that if ya care ta look at the first sentence in me post.

I jus' added some history.

Sorry ya didn't like it.

Hope yer keyboard allows ya to move to posts ya enjoy readin' as I didn't force ya ta read what I said. JR

 

[JB]

Re: V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

"V" block engines tend to vibrate less noticably than inlines because the pistons move in different directions and produce harmonics at higher frequencies than the inlines.

Opposed (boxer) engines vibrate least because opposed piston forces cancel one another.

Boxer outboards were smooth as oil, but just too bulky.

 

[coolguy147]

Re: V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

i should my posts short and sweet then lol


naw i didnt care about the history i never knew about it so ya its interesting.

but jb something i was looking for i like that and never thought of that. wouldnt midn to have boxer engine for a outboard. never seen one except the really old outboards.

so y dont they do v designs all the time? i know suzuki does it for the 2 cylinder models. i mean who cares if it is buikly i means it looks like it has power lol

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

Sorry I can't understand what yer sayin' or askin'.

Did ya do that on purpose?

Silvertip answered the origional question better then any of us. N' I though I acknowledged that if ya care ta look at the first sentence in me post.

I jus' added some history.

Sorry ya didn't like it.

Hope yer keyboard allows ya to move to post ya enjoy readin' as I didn't force ya ta read what I said. JR

You enjoy picking on 14 year olds, JR? :redface:
Really, that's how old Coolguy is......

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

You enjoy picking on 14 year olds, JR? :redface:
Really, that's how old Coolguy is......

I thought my reply to Coolguy was self explanatory.

I was not aware he was 14, (not that it really matters, are you his momma???), n' jus' how is it you think I was "picking" on him?

Are you some sorta mind reader or some such???

He stated he enjoyed me bit o' history, n' since ya seem ta find sooooo much fault we me posts why don't ya jus' pass 'em by if ya don't like 'em ..........eh?

You jus' carry on now ya hear. JR

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

I like yer posts. I can't resist.

 

[coolguy147]

Re: V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

lol i still want a boxer engine in my boat lol

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

lol i still want a boxer engine in my boat lol

Yeah I liked what JB said tooooo, he is right: those huge old hog v-4s were very very smooooooth n' very quiet.

When they finally cut down the size n' streamlined the midsections n' lower units in the early to mid 1970s they looked real koooool too.

I still like the light weight, n' massive out of the hole torque, (I'm a water skiier), n' those old inline6 Tower o' Powers are real screamers @ 6,000 RPMs plus and 60 MPH plus on a light hull!

I had a 1250 short shaft at 74 MPH one time on a 14 foot tunnel hull. You could feeeeel the tension; "man what a ride"!!!!!

Great sport. JR

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

The OMC V4 engines use a 90 degree block for regular and a 60 degree block for the Hi-po loop charged engines. All have 4 carbs on them --the old were 2 two barrels and the newer are 4 single barrels.

The V4 is, as said lower and and more compact looking. OMC pushed this as a marketing ploy when they first made them.

HOWEVER: since they use only two crankpins 180 deg apart on the old crossflow, the crank webs and seals are the size of the crank cheeks. Thus: the inter-cylinder seals by their very size have a bit more friction while the fewer main bearings make up for it a bit. The 60 degree V engines still use only two crankpins spaced 180 degrees apart, but each pair of cylinders (upper and lower)crankpins are ground 15 degrees (I think--might be 30)different from center so that the engine still fires every 90 degrees. Even so, the crank is still a bit lighter than an inline 4 crank. The one main disadvantage to the crossflow V4 is that one bank of cylinders has the airflow traveling in the opposite direction to the crank rotation. If you notice, all modern crossflow inline engines (with the exception of some old 2 cylinder OMC s that I have seen.) have the bypass ports on the starboard side of the cylinders.

Of course, loop charging does not have that issue since the ports are usually positioned at angles to the cylinder to effectively blow the charge into the combustion chamber. Note that with the advent of loop charging, Merc started making V engines and discontinued the 6 cylinder "Tower of Power." That should tell you something.

BTW: While it ran like a son-of-a-gun, the Merc inline six was known for overheating and scoring the top cylinder due to water flow problems.

 

[steelespike]

Re: V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

Years ago early 60s? when a 50 mph outboard was still pretty fast I saw a late a beautiful 40s Evinrude Big Four 50hp.on a big 15ft Raveau setup for marathons run a 100hp Merc on a 14ft Raveau informal setup.100 hp was all over the place the 50 steady as a dollar. Anyway it was pretty much a dead heat.Fun to watch. Used to get to ride in that big Raveau occasionally.
It was fun to just watch him start that big rascal up.

 

[coolguy147]

Re: V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

im gonna buy some old porshe and put its engine in my pontoon!@#$%^

lol u gotta love evinrude johnson even though mercury almost always beat them in racing but moajority of people like cruising and fishing.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

the J/E's are easier to tune, linc n sinc, and just easier to work on.

 

[Mscanon99]

Re: V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

You gotta love the V4 Evinrude.

I have a 1995 (115) Evinrude on my 17 ft. Sunbird bowrider. The last few weeks I have been looking around for a 18-19 foot bowrider with an I/O thinking it would be great to not have that motor in the way of loading people and tubes....the swim platform would be really nice.

I uncovered my Sunbird today, put the battery in, pumped the bulb and turned the key. The motor didn't hesitate, I dont think I could count a revolution, it just fired right up. Blew out the fogging oil in about 5 mins and she was just purring.

Granted, I take care of my motor, however I have total confidence with it. I had an inline 4 Merc (115 hp) and it was fine, however there is just somthing about this motor that seems to be better, smoother and just right.

I am now second guessing going with an I/O, all the service/maintenance and for what, a nicer back end. I don't know, it will be hard to part with this boat/motor.

Mike

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

The OMC V4 engines use a 90 degree block for regular and a 60 degree block for the Hi-po loop charged engines. All have 4 carbs on them --the old were 2 two barrels and the newer are 4 single barrels.

The V4 is, as said lower and and more compact looking. OMC pushed this as a marketing ploy when they first made them.

HOWEVER: since they use only two crankpins 180 deg apart on the old crossflow, the crank webs and seals are the size of the crank cheeks. Thus: the inter-cylinder seals by their very size have a bit more friction while the fewer main bearings make up for it a bit. The 60 degree V engines still use only two crankpins spaced 180 degrees apart, but each pair of cylinders (upper and lower)crankpins are ground 15 degrees (I think--might be 30)different from center so that the engine still fires every 90 degrees. Even so, the crank is still a bit lighter than an inline 4 crank. The one main disadvantage to the crossflow V4 is that one bank of cylinders has the airflow traveling in the opposite direction to the crank rotation. If you notice, all modern crossflow inline engines (with the exception of some old 2 cylinder OMC s that I have seen.) have the bypass ports on the starboard side of the cylinders.

Of course, loop charging does not have that issue since the ports are usually positioned at angles to the cylinder to effectively blow the charge into the combustion chamber. Note that with the advent of loop charging, Merc started making V engines and discontinued the 6 cylinder "Tower of Power." That should tell you something.

BTW: While it ran like a son-of-a-gun, the Merc inline six was known for overheating and scoring the top cylinder due to water flow problems.

Yup Frank, I agree with most of what you said.

I jus wanna make a small side note, about the dark girls that I luv.

They built the Tower o' Powers from 1957 to 1988 or 31 some odd years.

They did have their famous weak koolin' and fuel problems and they were very hard to get all six jugs back in the crankcase if ya did rebuild 'em, so I agree the v-4 OMC hogs were easier ta werk on and ran much better in salt water, and in general were more reliable, quite n' smooth.

That all said: I still run several of the old black girls that are over 40 years old and have never had their case cracked, and still run real REAL good, so it is real hard ta say they didn't have some merit durin' their long production run.

While OMC went through bankruptcy I believe that Mercury Marine sold more Towers then any other high powered outboard engine in history (by a cornsiderable margin), fer all their problems people tend ta cornplain about.

One final thing, pound fer pound dollar fer dollar no cornparable HP engine on a cornparable hull can touch me screamin' smokin' light weight but fast ol' girls.

They do have a view of me stern n' wake, NOT OF ME BOW!!!! JR

 

[steelespike]

Re: V4 vs Inline 4 - any inherent advantage ?

I think this fits this discussion.The early V4 50s were generally considered gas hogs I did have personal experience with a couple when new and they sure could go through gas.I don't recall comments with the 4cyl or 6 cyl
Mercs being hogs.Any one have experience with them?