Water in very odd area

[msojjo]

so, this has been my second full boating season with this boat, check out my profile and pics.....We had some rain come through the area this past weekend and i covered the boat like usual when not in use or its' raining. Behind the swim pad is a little "swim deck with about 12" of deck and a ladder. Now under this there is just a hollow spot and water has collected there, and overflowing and going down the inside of the transom and into the bilge. This has not happened before, as i always am checking the back of the boat for water because i do have a small leak somewhere and am trying to locate. I did locate the bilge water, need to resilicone exhaust port hole on starboard side of the hull, "why would they put the exhaust port under the water when sitting".

 

[oops!]

Re: Water in very odd area

hi...please post pics of the area you are referring to.
and your exhaust ports

 

[msojjo]

Re: Water in very odd area

hi...please post pics of the area you are referring to.
and your exhaust ports

let me know if this picture works.......the big arrow is pointing to where i have water sitting.....circle is exhaust port, but it sits in the water when the boat is not under way......guessing it has to do with the way motor sits in the boat, in connection with the risers.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Water in very odd area

Not sure why you got water in the area under your swim platform. If the boat had been in the water I would say check the deck-to-hull joint under the rubrail. Maybe still check the upper edge of the rub rail for missing sealant?
Regarding the exhaust under the water, they do it for a couple of reasons I am sure. One, because that's how it fits the easiest. And two, it makes the boat less obnoxiously loud when you start it up and open the diverters.

 

[Philster]

Re: Water in very odd area

Most boats have exhaust ports under the water; yours is on the side, but its hardly an issue.

Before you go siliconing anything, you'd better find out what type of sealant to use and maybe explain exactly what you are trying to do. Silicone under water to seal exahust: My hunch say "No way".

I will let others suggest the best/preferred sealant and its uses.

 

[msojjo]

Re: Water in very odd area

hi...please post pics of the area you are referring to.
and your exhaust ports

hopefully i can get this pic to work

 

[msojjo]

Re: Water in very odd area

Not sure why you got water in the area under your swim platform. If the boat had been in the water I would say check the deck-to-hull joint under the rubrail. Maybe still check the upper edge of the rub rail for missing sealant?
Regarding the exhaust under the water, they do it for a couple of reasons I am sure. One, because that's how it fits the easiest. And two, it makes the boat less obnoxiously loud when you start it up and open the diverters.

Last year i took all of the rub rails off of the boat tightened down all of the screws and applied the silicone that the marina recomended to use. I thought of the rub rail too but that sits out of the water so far that it would be impossible for water to get in there,

 

[msojjo]

Re: Water in very odd area

Most boats have exhaust ports under the water; yours is on the side, but its hardly an issue.

Before you go siliconing anything, you'd better find out what type of sealant to use and maybe explain exactly what you are trying to do. Silicone under water to seal exahust: My hunch say "No way".

I will let others suggest the best/preferred sealant and its uses.

I should clarify before i go any further.....when i say exhaust port, i mean the stainless steel fitting that screws to the fiberglass. The fitting is attached to the riser by a rubber boot, or hose, and the fitting does not get hot, or really very warm at all.

 

[oops!]

Re: Water in very odd area

ok bud,,,,,, this is easy,,,,,,first off......silly cone is not used on boats......use sikka flex....or 3m 5200 for your exhaust fittings....this is a proper marine sealant and will be far superior to tile caluking.

second.....if i am guessing correctly......the watrer is pooling under the cap on top of the area that makes up the hull portion of the swim grid....correct?

if so.....the water is coming in form under the rub rail....i read that you took it off and re caluked it...but either the silly cone failed or you missed a spot.

take a knife.....cut out the silly cone you added between the cap hull joint....and litterally.....shoot 5200 into the joint area....

this is going to be messy.....so spray your hull with soapy water before you do this....you might want to stick a butter knife between the joint...and pry (just a little) so the 5200 can get between the cap and the hull. after you have got that done....(pay special attention to the corners....this is the most likely intrusion spots).
clean off excess 5200...the soapy water will stop the 5200 from sticking to the hull....clean it well...and wipe off any soapy water.....then....add a bead of 5200 under the rub rail in the cap hull joint...nice even bead......then pray with soapy water.....take a popsicle stick and take off the excess 5200.....make it look pretty.
then wipe off the excess 5200 from around where the popsicle stick caused product bleed.

we are allmost done.....lol

go to the inside of the boat....and caulk the joint. from the inside.....you might have to make a long stick for this....but apply the 5200 liberally on the joint....and to any rivets you can get to..

let cure.

if any water gets in there after that.....it is being sprayed up there from a leaky hose coming from either the exhaust risers or the water inlett pipe from the drive.

cheers
oops

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Water in very odd area

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the top cap of a boat sits over the bottom of the boat structure. Kinda like a piece of siding on a house. Then the rub rail is installed over the top of the joint. If this is the case, chances of you even needing lifeseal caulk or any caulking under it are slim to non. The exhuast port should be sealed with 5200. I would buy the quick dry or leave it out of the water for 48 hours of cure time for the regular 5200. You said you had a leak before, could the leak be coming from a forward compartment draining back to the bilge? It would help if you posted close up pics of the area holding water and the bilge area. If you can get access, take a digital camera and take a picture of the inside of hull.

 

[Philster]

Re: Water in very odd area

Far too many boats introduce water into the inner hull/foam via the rub rail joint -- believe it or not.

I can attest to this. It has happened even to a big builder such as Wellcraft. In my case, it came in from rain. Other mid-90's Wellcrafts, too.

I was lucky, because they way the water would adhere to the inner hull it would bring it into the closed bow/cabin. It would get cushions and floor wet, and most would be in a storage locker that is glassed. I had some wet foam up there and ripped it out. I sealed the rub rail from the outside.

The way water adheres to surfaces, it will follow bends, even those at joints. It might pool up in a joint, and then climb over and in.

Rub rails leak. There are saturated boats out there with rotten innards and heavy foam because of this problem.

 

[msojjo]

Re: Water in very odd area

The only thing that i didn't to was 5200 the actual seam of the two hulls...... i tightened screws and 5200'ed the top and bottom of the rubrail and then snapped the rubber seal into the rail that goes all around the boat, is water getting into this rubber seal, it seems awfully tight as i put it back in. I see that there is foam sitting in that area under the swim step, is there foam anywhere else on these boats, i have had the side panels off, and there is nothing there and in the motor compartment, i see nothing, from there forward is the 50 gal. fuel tank, from there is a ski locker, so i can't see anything......i have the glassed floors with snap in carpeting.....and yes i did mean using a marine use calk for the exhaust port, not a bathroom tile calk.

 

[oops!]

Re: Water in very odd area

leaks around the rub rail are the prime cause of water intrusion into a boat.

the cap fits over the hull.....it is commonly referred to as a shoe box joint. another kind of joint...is called a flange joint.....but flange joints went out in the early seventys

 

[Philster]

Re: Water in very odd area

About leaking joints (shoe box). http://www.jordanyachts.com/archives/1651




Shoebox
A shoebox joint is noted as the simpliest and worst joint. The deck molds in such a way to create a downward flange that fits over a simple flangeless hull. The builder screws horizontally through the deck flange and into the hull. The forces on this arrangement pull the deck away from the hull popping nastily the screw away from the joint.

Conclusion
The hull-deck joint is mainly made of an outward flange, inward flange, or shoebox arrangement. Builders choose mainly based on build costs. Often production boats have outflanges while quality builds use inward flanges. The joint is a common source of leaks and can be a serious factor in the value of a boat.

my note: That screw/path begs to channel water.

 

[oops!]

Re: Water in very odd area

The only thing that i didn't to was 5200 the actual seam of the two hulls...... i tightened screws and 5200'ed the top and bottom of the rubrail and then snapped the rubber seal into the rail that goes all around the boat, is water getting into this rubber seal, it seems awfully tight as i put it back in. I see that there is foam sitting in that area under the swim step, is there foam anywhere else on these boats, i have had the side panels off, and there is nothing there and in the motor compartment, i see nothing, from there forward is the 50 gal. fuel tank, from there is a ski locker, so i can't see anything......i have the glassed floors with snap in carpeting.....and yes i did mean using a marine use calk for the exhaust port, not a bathroom tile calk.

the water is not getting in THRU the rub rail.....it is getting in under the cap hull joint that the rub rail is hiding. tha actual rub rail and trim just hides the screws that hold the cap on...a lot of boats use rivets for this.

here is a shot of a boat with out the rub rail.

the rub rail is a vertical wall with a "L" shaped lip.... in a perfect world.....this lip touches the hull forming a contact barrier.....but it rarely does. there are places on your boat that the rub rail is more than 1.4 inch off the hull of the boat. thats why when you seal the bottom......you seal the joint....not the rub rail.

 

[Philster]

Re: Water in very odd area

For the record: I use ''rub rail joint'' to describe the joint in question, as this immediately points out the area where top meets bottom, but don't literally mean the actual rub rail.

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Water in very odd area

I still do not see how the joint you guys are showing, introduces water while at rest. I can see maybe when you are running in seas that will throw the water up and under, but the op said the boat was covered and the water appeared while sitting in driveway. Are you saying that the water is going to defi gravity and roll under the joint, (which is usually at least an inch or two tall) under the top cap. I don't see it happening unless like I said, the boat is in rough seas or splashing water up there. He also said he caulked top and bottom of the rub rail, which would block water from getting to the joint anyway. Now, how I can see it happening in the stern, is water running down the rub rail and running under the rail and over the cap because the bow is higher than the stern. This could be a possibility, but is the rub rail is caulked top and bottom, thats not going to happen either.

 

[oops!]

Re: Water in very odd area

if the owner is POSITIVE this water was not there before,,,,,the only other areas there are there are air intakes, the ski rope cleat....and possibly the anchor light fixture..

if you cant see water marks coming from these areas and dripping on to the pooling area.....climb in the boat with a flash light...have someone put the tarp on it and turn on the sprinkler !

 

[msojjo]

Re: Water in very odd area

if the owner is POSITIVE this water was not there before,,,,,the only other areas there are there are air intakes, the ski rope cleat....and possibly the anchor light fixture..

if you cant see water marks coming from these areas and dripping on to the pooling area.....climb in the boat with a flash light...have someone put the tarp on it and turn on the sprinkler !

positive the water has never been there before while i have had it......the cover covers the vents and anchor light fixgture, and the ski rope cleat is set in some, and there was a lot of water.....

 

[msojjo]

Re: Water in very odd area

I still do not see how the joint you guys are showing, introduces water while at rest. I can see maybe when you are running in seas that will throw the water up and under, but the op said the boat was covered and the water appeared while sitting in driveway. Are you saying that the water is going to defi gravity and roll under the joint, (which is usually at least an inch or two tall) under the top cap. I don't see it happening unless like I said, the boat is in rough seas or splashing water up there. He also said he caulked top and bottom of the rub rail, which would block water from getting to the joint anyway. Now, how I can see it happening in the stern, is water running down the rub rail and running under the rail and over the cap because the bow is higher than the stern. This could be a possibility, but is the rub rail is caulked top and bottom, thats not going to happen either.

just to clarify, the boat was sitting in the water when this happened, beached. All it did was rain, no wind no rough water, my swim platform sits out of the water a good 10+ inches, so the rub rail was not sumbmerged at all. The rain that comes down, off the cover would fall from the boat following the contours of the boat, so the top of the rail is caulked, and the actual rubber fitting that covers the screws fits pretty darn tight, but that has to be the only spot its getting in right. Weather its coming in at the rear or at the front and side, its following along the rail and into the boat? Why wouldn't it just drip out if its not fitting tightly......