what is tow weight?

[sti1471]

I am trying to understand exactly what tow weight means and how it is defined.

my vehicle has a tow rating of 3500 lbs. Does this mean that I can tow a boat and trailer that weighs 3500 lbs. on a scale, or does this mean that I can tow something that requires 3500 lbs. of pull force to move? if I have a 2000 lb. boat on a 600 lb. trailer that is 2600 lbs. and I hook a scale between the vehicle and trailer and pull it, I don't think it would read 2600 lbs. of pull force, in fact I know it would not since I can push and pull the boat myself and I sure as hell can't push or pull 2600 "true pounds"

3500 lbs. on wheels is different than 3500 lbs. not on wheels.

Also, if I have a boat and trailer that are 2500 lbs. on a flat surface, does that weight increase when trying to pull the boat up the boat ramp, or is it still 2500 lbs. as far as the vehicle is concerned?

I know these may be stupid questions, but I can't find a detailed answer anywhere.

 

[Fleetwin]

Re: what is tow weight?

A trailer tow rating of 3500 pounds means that your vehicle is rated to pull a combination of Boat, engine, trailer and gear-NOT to exceed 3500 pounds.

The manufacturers take into account, hills, stopping distance, etc. when calculating a tow rating for your vehicle.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: what is tow weight?

You're over thinking things.

The weight rating is the physical weight of what your pulling, not the amount of force required to pull it.

 

[Fleetwin]

Re: what is tow weight?

You're over thinking things.

The weight rating is the physical weight of what your pulling, not the amount of force required to pull it.

^+1

 

[sti1471]

Re: what is tow weight?

You're over thinking things.

The weight rating is the physical weight of what your pulling, not the amount of force required to pull it.

Perfect thank you...

I have a 2007 Pontiac torrent AWD that has a tow rating of 3500 lbs. I have a 17ft Larson citation 5500 on a roller trailer. from the specs I can find, the boat weights 1700 lbs. the torrent pulls the boat easily without issues. However the boat ramp at the lake is a steep ramp. the first time I took it to the lake I backed it down the ramp until the prop was hovering over the water a few inches. For some reason I decided to put it in drive to see if I could pull it back up. the wheels spun for about 1 second, then it gripped and went up the hill. Ever since that I have not backed it down fearing if my back tires get on the slick stuff I might be in trouble. I think it just took a little wheel spin before the AWD kicked in and that is where the slip was. I am just worried that if the boat gets water weight added it might have an issue. So it got me thinking and I was not sure if the trailer on a hill weighed more than the weight on a flat surface or if a trailer weight is the same "weight" whether it is flat or on a hill.

I have towed several things before and I am good at it, but I have never had a lake behind me waiting to eat my vehicle if I mess up. LOL..

Anyone tow a boat this size with a torrent, equinox AWD before on a steep ramp, I'd love to hear how it went.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: what is tow weight?

Perfect thank you...

I have a 2007 Pontiac torrent AWD that has a tow rating of 3500 lbs. I have a 17ft Larson citation 5500 on a roller trailer. from the specs I can find, the boat weights 1700 lbs. the torrent pulls the boat easily without issues. However the boat ramp at the lake is a steep ramp. the first time I took it to the lake I backed it down the ramp until the prop was hovering over the water a few inches. For some reason I decided to put it in drive to see if I could pull it back up. the wheels spun for about 1 second, then it gripped and went up the hill. Ever since that I have not backed it down fearing if my back tires get on the slick stuff I might be in trouble. I think it just took a little wheel spin before the AWD kicked in and that is where the slip was.

Most likely that is what happened. AWD is usually a passive system that doesn't engage until called upon.

You might want to have the boat/trailer weighed. Making sure the boat has a full tank of gas, and is loaded up with all the gear you would intend to bring to the lake. Published weights are usually "dry", and don't take into account the above mentioned.

 

[emilsr]

Re: what is tow weight?

Weighing the boat/trailer is the only accurate method of determining weight. Manufacturers estimates are just that; an estimate. It'll likely be more on the scales than you think.

That said, it is what it is. If you could tow it up the ramp you've got enough power and traction. FWD cars are not ideal for pulling the boat up the ramp which prompted your AWD to send power to the rear wheels. You'll be okay, just ease gently into the power and minimize wheel spin. The critical point is just as the boat clears the water.

 

[TomB985]

Re: what is tow weight?

The only stupid question is the one that you don't ask. It's good that you are taking the time to learn this stuff rather than simply guessing like many do. I tend to think that FWD vehicles do better on boat ramps than RWD because your primary drive wheels are much less likely to be in the water when it comes time to pull out.

In an emergency, say something breaks and you are unable to pull up the ramp you shouldn't have to worry about rolling into the lake. Simply engage your parking brake as hard as you can, which locks the rear wheels, and put the transmission in park, which locks the front wheels. Then call for help!

 

[H20Rat]

Re: what is tow weight?

FWD cars are not ideal for pulling the boat up the ramp which prompted your AWD to send power to the rear wheels. You'll be okay, just ease gently into the power and minimize wheel spin. The critical point is just as the boat clears the water.

Overthinking things... Most AWD systems are FWD until there is a little bit of wheel spin. They don't know or care that you are on a ramp unloading a boat, all they care about is that they saw a speed difference between the front and rear, and then locked up a clutch pack to engage the rear wheels.

(disclaimer, subaru uses full time AWD on all vehicles, all tires are engaged all the time, at slow speeds at least. Couple other manufacturers have similar systems)

 

[Mason78]

Re: what is tow weight?

A Torrent is the same vehicle as an Equinox right?

 

[Noltz]

Re: what is tow weight?

You've received the correct answer on tow weight. It's what your trailer and it's load can safely be. Keep in mind local regulations may require trailer brakes. I know here in Ontario it's above 3500lbs. Having been jackknifed by a 3500lb trailer (raining, slight turn, stepped on brakes, WOAH, facing wrong way), brakes are never a bad thing. Crater is spot on in describing most AWD systems. Your Torrent is one of them; primarily FWD until it starts spinning. You should also have ABS (standard equipment in 2007 Torrents) which means if you're slipping going in or coming out, let the AWD and ABS do it's job to get you stopped or moving safely.

 

[sti1471]

Re: what is tow weight?

Yes the torrent is basically an equinox with a Pontiac logo on it.

I was looking at my trailer, and it appears that it is a trailer that is most likely from the 70's or something. I doubt it came with this boat.
Anyways, it has a brake actuator on it, so it does have brakes. I have never looked at the brake system so for all I know it does not even have fluid in the res. I will get to that soon. Anyways, I was looking at the trailer and wondered if there is a good way to reduce the weight of the trailer. It looks like it is make of thick metal, and almost built to overkill, like everything build in the old days when builders exceeded expectations and limits.

first of all, there is a thick long tube near the axle. I am not sure what this does, or if it is just for strength. Can this bar be removed from the trailer to reduce weight? If it is needed for strength then I won't touch it, but if this trailer was made for a much heavier boat, and the current setup can do without it, then that is about 50-70 lbs I can get rid of.

I am going to remove the rusted sheet metal fender flares and put on some plastic ones they have at cabelas. That won't reduce much, but the fenders on it now are ugly. At the front of the boat, the white post that the winch is mounted to looks to be about 1 foot taller than it needs to be. Can this be cut down without effecting the strength?

And last, the neck from the ball to the white post is long. it makes it so that it cannot fit on the garage without turning it sideways. is there a kit you can buy that makes this able to hinge and fold up when storing it in the garage?

Is there anywhere else you can see where I can reduce weight on the trailer? I thought about converting it from roller to bunk, but I like the roller idea as this makes it so I do not need to back it down as far to launch and load keeping my wheels out of the water which is perfect for my O/P.

Disclaimer... never mind the fiberglass damage on the boat, that has all been repaired. These pictures was when I first bought it.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: what is tow weight?

I don't think anybody in their right mind on this board would agree that you should start cutting things off the trailer with out at least laying their own eyes on it. Fenders, maybe. Parts of the frame, not a chance.

If cutting structural stuff off is the difference between just barely under, or over payload, you really need a different trailer or tow rig IMHO.

I stand by my first suggestion.
Get your loaded rig weighed so you know where you stand. Weigh stations, scrap yards, and a host of other places ought to be able to give you concrete numbers.

 

[jkust]

Re: what is tow weight?

Right, so I've towed my 4000lb boat with a 3500lb tow capacity minivan prior to owning 3 truck based suv's. (I obviously keep my boats longer than my vehicles). Anyway what I learned is that my old, fwd minivan could tow a lot up the steepest ramp with ease. The only issues I ever had was a bit of front wheel spin as it didn't have awd but new tires helped a lot. The key was to shut off the traction control because that simply applied the abs and slowed down your forward momentum. Your system is more advanced and the front wheels are clearly doing their job for you. Where these non-truck based vehicles struggle is during emergency maneuvers where it is do or die at highway speed. Understand though that while a unibody vehicle can certainly tow within it's limits, a truck based suv is like night and day.

 

[TomB985]

Re: what is tow weight?

Anyways, I was looking at the trailer and wondered if there is a good way to reduce the weight of the trailer. It looks like it is make of thick metal, and almost built to overkill, like everything build in the old days when builders exceeded expectations and limits.

You should really put things into perspective here. First of all the idea that builders in the 70s overbuilt everything is a myth; your trailer is no more overbuilt than the one under my '11 Larson. Secondly yes, you can remove a few pounds by lopping things off, but for what reason? Put this into perspective, that trailer is probably less than 700 lbs. You couldn't even remove 10% of that metal and still have a structurally sound trailer. And that would save what...70 lbs? Neither your tow vehicle nor your fuel budget would notice a difference. You would be playing with fire by modifying the trailer for absolutely zero gain. Makes no logical sense at all.

Where these non-truck based vehicles struggle is during emergency maneuvers where it is do or die at highway speed. Understand though that while a unibody vehicle can certainly tow within it's limits, a truck based suv is like night and day.

I really disagree with this. As a CDL-holder who's towed just about every type of trailer with cars, minivans, SUVs, pickup trucks, and road tractors, I can say with some certainty that there is NO tighter handling vehicle than a unibody vehicle with IFS. My wife's 2011 Sienna is far more stable towing my boat than my Excursion ever was...and that was the largest truck-based SUV ever made. My little F150 is more stable with my loaded car hauler than my last F350 was for the simple reason that the tighter steering and suspension made handling far more precise.

Of course a truck driveline may last longer while towing, but that doesn't mean that it will handle better. Lower center of gravity, tight suspension, and a long wheelbase are what make a good tow vehicle. The OP's Torrent has two out of the three.

 

[Ming15237]

Re: what is tow weight?

I think we are all very well in agreement here that the last thing that the OP wants to or should ever think of doing is in an effort to shave a few pounds is start cutting into the trailer. This being said my background is from an 10 year automotive forensics career. I am also a an ASE certified master technician. And currently own my own automotive repair facility. The tow rating of a vehicle is determined by the structure type of the vehicles frame, i.e. unibody of conventional body on frame style. The second large contributing factor is the vehicles braking capabilities. IMHO braking capacity is the single largest concern when towing at or over the vehicles max capacity. There is simply no worse feeling the pressing the brake pedal as hard as you can and not stopping any faster. Another contributor to towing capacity is the load rating of the tow vehicles tires. This is another area you never want to exceed. So in conclusion if you are at or near capacity, and the vehicle is not running hot nor is it having any handling issues I would not be concerned. Caution is always the best defense when towing and using your head will go a long way in your towing safety.

 

[sti1471]

Re: what is tow weight?

OK so I will not be touching the trailer. I will be removing the fenders and adding new lights to it as those on the trailer now are ugly as can be.

So the trailer also has rust on it and I would like the lube up the roller pivot points. Once I have the boat removed from the trailer I am thinking of wire brushing it and then spraying it with muriatic acid as I was told this would eat the rust off the trailer leaving it ready to paint. Does muriatic acid work good on getting a trailer ready to paint or is there another liquid that works better?

 

[Ming15237]

Re: what is tow weight?

Not sure about muratic acid, I believe it is used to etch concret. I would use stuff from KBS Coatings - Rust Prevention - Gas Tank Sealer - Stop Rust Paint - Clear Coat Paints they have some very good rust stoping agents and coatings.

 

[Mi duckdown]

Re: what is tow weight?

Pics of your trailer and boat would help.

 

[jkust]

Re: what is tow weight?

I really disagree with this. As a CDL-holder who's towed just about every type of trailer with cars, minivans, SUVs, pickup trucks, and road tractors, I can say with some certainty that there is NO tighter handling vehicle than a unibody vehicle with IFS. My wife's 2011 Sienna is far more stable towing my boat than my Excursion ever was...and that was the largest truck-based SUV ever made. My little F150 is more stable with my loaded car hauler than my last F350 was for the simple reason that the tighter steering and suspension made handling far more precise.

Of course a truck driveline may last longer while towing, but that doesn't mean that it will handle better. Lower center of gravity, tight suspension, and a long wheelbase are what make a good tow vehicle. The OP's Torrent has two out of the three.

Your experiences may be different. My suv's are so massively much better in every single respect I can't agree given my years of towing with unibody and full truck frames. Add to the frame however, the trucks all have large V8 engines with copious torque, 4wd/4AWD, G80 and G86 locking and Limited slip differentials, 3.73's, auto adjusting suspension and on and on. As for tighter handling, I'm not certain that is on the top of my list as I don't expect my suv's to be as tight as my unibodies but that said one of my V8 suv's is a sport suv with the handling that will rival most cars. The skid pad numbers are amazing for a framed vehicle yet also built for towing. It is low, with a very tight suspension and doesn't do me any favors over the others as I tow cautiously and don't usually do a slalom course while towing. In addition, my boat weighs close to the mini van yet not close to the suv's and so there is a large weight advantage. The suv's can tow a boat substantially heavier than the minivan weighs and the opposite can't be said. I pushed my luck when I did tow with the minivan as the loaded boat/trailer over taxed the minivan's capacity's in all respects.