what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

[tommays]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

We have a few boats go POP most every year here and when they do it gets looked into until a cause is found

 

[mthieme]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

Hmmm...makes me wonder how many of the vast accidents in the recent past they investigated? Could be SOP, but it could also be standard forms that are filled out as opposed to an "investigation".
They would have to find the parts which potentially could be hundreds of feet below and taken away with the current. If determined to not "approved", they would have to prove they were a contributing cause of the accident, etc., etc.
and this would have to fit into their budget constraints.

If is might big word - isn't it? If I were (more) bored I'd go back and count how many times it' been used in this thread.

If USCG has every part number for every vessel, I want access to that database!!!

 

[QC]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

A couple of quick things before I chime in on what I consider a very interesting thread . . . I have a strict OEM background. "Will fit" parts and "USCG approved" parts seem like similar topics except for the legal risks . . .

I am currently building a boat, at this point carbed, but I have been thinking . . . Some here have referred to my project as a restoration, but in fact it has never been registered or wet, so it is actually an owner build. So I have a particular interest in understanding and complying with regulations.

I am a rules follower from way back, but I am also somewhat of a risk taker . . .

There is a common law rule now that states (overly simplified) that if something you are using is safer than the item discussed in a statute that you are covered. There are some exceptions to this but the key thing to remember is is just has to be safe not the "safest".

This seems like an important piece of information cosnsidering that the USCG has openly stated that their rules do not cover EFI (TBI or MPI) . . .

and . . . .

This is one of those instances (cynical according to achris) where bureaucracy serves to hinder progress, and overall, make us less safe.

A little personal note about my experience with Aussies. This is not to slam anybody or anything, only an observation over quite a long time and regarding a number of different scenarios both business and social. I find them more trusting and more respectful and more compliant regarding their government and their laws than both Americans and Brits. I have not been able to figure out the cultural differences that cause this, and considering certain parts of their history it is confusing to me .. . I have discussed this with a couple of brits too, and they independently came to the same conclusion . . . Weird. On the other hand, Americans tend to push boundaries and do not trust their gov't . . soooooooo . . . . the discourse between the two perpetrators seems totally normal to me . . . Love you guys . . .

 

[mkast]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

If USCG has every part number for every vessel, I want access to that database!!!

As usual you guys are making statements from an emotional point of view not reality.
The USCG doesn't have a data base of part numbers.
An investigation into non-approved parts comes up, the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) is required to inspect/supply data to the USCG as to the validity/installation of the parts.

 

[mthieme]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

This thread is it's own Deja vu !

 

[lime4x4]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

And all i wanted to know was what makes them different!!! I've had both system apart and numbers match from both setups

 

[Uraijit]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

A little personal note about my experience with Aussies. This is not to slam anybody or anything, only an observation over quite a long time and regarding a number of different scenarios both business and social. I find them more trusting and more respectful and more compliant regarding their government and their laws than both Americans and Brits. I have not been able to figure out the cultural differences that cause this, and considering certain parts of their history it is confusing to me .. . I have discussed this with a couple of brits too, and they independently came to the same conclusion . . . Weird. On the other hand, Americans tend to push boundaries and do not trust their gov't . . soooooooo . . . . the discourse between the two perpetrators seems totally normal to me . . . Love you guys . . .

They traded in their arms for the illusion of security as well... I don't know if that's part of the cause, based on their new found reliance on their government for security, or if it's just an effect of being disarmed 'subjects'.

Either way, it's interesting to watch. Aussies seem to be much more willing go out, as T.S. Elliot said, "Not with a bang but a whimper."

Get it? No bang?

Whether I go out with the bang of my gun at U.N. stormtroopers, or with the bang of my engine compartment exploding. I'm going out with a bang!

 

[Uraijit]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

And all i wanted to know was what makes them different!!! I've had both system apart and numbers match from both setups

Well, it sounds like the parts ARE the same then. Same part numbers, they'll show up EXACTLY the same to the Coast Guard...

 

[mylesm260]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

Okay, so if the part numbers are the same.........
And the Stickers arn't important (They come off the marine versions anyway)
And the USCG regulations dont' even MENTION EFI at all

It's all good then!


Besides, the accident investigators don't have time machines, how could they posibly know if a part was sold as an automotive part or a marine part if it's the exact same part with the exact same part number? once it's installed in the boat, it's imposible to tell the two apart anyway!


As I mentioned before, given the nature of carbs, I think any EFI system (honda, GM, etc) is safter then any carb. Floats fail, and when they do, there is nothing stoping the gas from over-flowing into the intake or the bilge.

There IS no equivilant of a failed float in and EFI system. Both systems can suffer from a failed fitting or fuel line, but nothing in an EFI system would cause fuel to be pumped into the bildge or intake (except MAYBE a failed fuel presure regulator which is MUCH MUCH MUCH less common than a failed float or failed needle and/or seat.


The reason they probably never update the USCG regulation is because there was probably no point. The danger is on the spark side of things. No efi system would ever make a spark anywhere anyway.

The USCG regulations work under the assumption that **** happens, and fuel leaks do occur, so lets make sure that nothing is going to spark that fuel (bare wires, starters, alternators, etc). The facts are:

A) EFI systems don't make sparks that could ignite fuel
B) EFI systems are much less likely to leak fuel into the intake or bildge

 

[mthieme]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

And all i wanted to know was what makes them different!!! I've had both system apart and numbers match from both setups

Better not get 'em mixed up. One is marine only you know.

See what you started
And it's never ending...keeps looping around like a computer with the hiccups

And you never really got a straight answer either.

 

[Uraijit]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

Yes, you're absolutely right. Same part number, same part. And even IF they are magically "different parts". The part number is all that matters, from the USCG/Insurance side of things (which is what everybody's been harping about).

You're right about most of the rest of it as well, except that marine carbs are designed to leak INTERNALLY when floats fail, for the very reason you mentioned.

Fuel pressure regulators have a return line, so they will automatically just pump the gas back to the tank, in the event of failure.

If it were a vacuum actuated FPR, there would be a very very small possibility of leaking, but the TBI uses an internal FPR, so there's nowhere for it to leak FROM even if it wanted to...

 

[mkast]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

Be the first on your block/dock to become a statistic.

 

[QC]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

Aussies seem to be much more willing go out, as T.S. Elliot said, "Not with a bang but a whimper."

Well I don't know about that, but I will say when I "go out" with them I always end up with a hangover . . . Those boys can partaaay . . .

 

[Uraijit]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

Be the first on your block/dock to become a statistic.

The amazing statistic is that there's REALLY not much of a statistic at all.

In 2006 your chances of being killed in a boat explosion were 1/600,000,000,000

Based on the ACTUAL statistics, you are more likely to be killed by a coconut, than to be killed in a boat explosion...

2001 - 2
2002 - 4
2003 - 7
2004 - 4
2005 - 0
2006 - 1
2007 - 0

Lets see, average it out...

Divide by roughly 6Billion people...

Carry the one...

Remove the decimals...

Your chances of being killed in a boat explosion are about 2,333,359,259,542 to 1.

I'll take those odds ANY day of the week.

 

[ron7000]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

you people are the biggest bunch of bureaucracy-loving deuchecanoes I have come across on the internet.


from an initial valid question.....

to McDonald's coffee.....

to a USCG database...

to the lawyers are gonna get me cause my boat's not compliant

I think you all should wear helmets when you drive your boats, like the kids do when they ride their bicycles. you know, you can't be too safe

 

[Uraijit]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

Well I don't know about that, but I will say when I "go out" with them I always end up with a hangover . . . Those boys can partaaay . . .

Lots of whimpering going on about them hangovers though, right?

 

[mthieme]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

The amazing statistic is that there's REALLY not much of a statistic at all.

In 2006 your chances of being killed in a boat explosion were 1/600,000,000,000

Yes, but, if that stainless tubing going up to the carb/tbi/fuel injection (take yer pick) doesn't have that seal of approval, we're all idiots, and gonna burn in hell....hey, maybe that's what they've been trying to drill in our heads?

The latest population count as of this month is estimated at 6.721 billion according to Wikipedia. This should make you feel even better than you chances of burning you boat down the waterline and going with the ship are that much less. I knew this would make you sleep easier tonight.

 

[Uraijit]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

Wow, more than I though, I was thinking it was in the lower 6B's

But I wanted to be conservative. I didn't want to average the population count over the past 7 years, so I just kept that number EXTRA conservative, and left it at 600Million. LMAO!

 

[mthieme]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

Wow, more than I though, I was thinking it was in the lower 6B's

But I wanted to be conservative. I didn't want to average the population count over the past 7 years, so I just kept that number EXTRA conservative, and left it at 600Million. LMAO!

Just lookin' out for ya.
Wouldn't want any thread wars started over how many people could die in boat fires IF the CG gets bored and bases those heavy numbers on a percentage of the total population.
But they're busy writing R&Rs...well they were...30 years ago.

 

[mylesm260]

Re: what makes a tbi from a truck different then a marine setup?

Anyone ever listen to guns n' roses?


......... Somtimes I feel like I'm beatin' a dead horse.............