When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

[triumphrick]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

When no one enables them any more ...

X2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or as much as you care to read and heed...

 

[eastont]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

Wow...lots of opnions leaning toward the "tough love" side of this, but as Summer Fun expressed, the world is completely different to day than it was when I was growing up.
In the early 70's employers were falling all over each other to offer a job and paying about $5 per hour. I went to the dentist for an abscessed tooth and I think he charged me about $10 for the consultation, I don't remember what the actual treatment cost, but I'm sure it was not the $2,000+ that the dentist is estimating for this problem.
Jobs are hard to find and they pay crap because there are 100 people for every crappy job out there. My daughter is a licenced debt collector and there is no work in her field because there is no way to collect from the defaulting debtors because they have no source of income, so why try. She is working at a Cash Stop store and earns $11 per hour with absolutely no benefits. Her manager worked at one of the largest credit collectors in the country for over 20 years and got laid off last year....she earns $15 per hour.

As my wife says..."try wearing her shoes for a while and see what you'd do."

And from my eldest daughter who has never asked for anything "It doesn't hurt to ask"....

 

[jkust]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

My folks policy was simple and no nonsense. On your 18th birthday regardless of if it was during the school year or not here in cold Minnesota, you would find all of your belongings in the front yard. I took what I could fit in my car I purchased at 15 years old from the job I held at 14 years old since never could we use our parents cars. (Yes I paid for my own car insurance from the first day I got my drivers license.) If you can't fit it in the car, it was burned in a pit in the back yard and we were to never return home. In my case I carried two boxes away and then all my possessions, furniture, starwars guys and everything else was burned. I nor my sister ever returned home and we are talking 1990's not 1970's. There was no discussion of college, any assistance of any kind ever regardless of if it is life or death. In the most literal sense my sister and I lived or died based on the decisions made from that day onward. Now people wonder why I am as conservative as I am and why I see hangers on in a negative light. Funny how the absolute worst situation imaginable made me better off and more successful than most anyone I know. You'd be suprised what people can do when they have to answer for their actions without a safety net. Most of what I see is entitlement mentality and kids that were coddled and never grew up. Nobody likes to hear that as people like to avoid the truth and the obvious. I'm not saying I will boot my kids out the door at 18 but certainly they will stand on their own and answer for their decisions. I think parents are a lot of the problem with today's kids. Times are easy these days compared to the recent past and I find especially today parents don't know how to say no to their kids to the point where they grow up with a mentality that doesn't beget success without continued intervention.

 

[j_martin]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

In answer to the original question, when you let go.

Sometimes, especially after such profuse molycoddling, the letting go takes a downward motion of the hands and a swift upward motion of one foot, as in drop kick.

Many family battles are fought over the technique and timing. I'm in one right nowl.

 

[dingbat]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

My dad always told me that he'll cover everything until the day I leave home for the first time. After that, it's one you.

I moved out 2 days after my 18th birthday and never went back. I bought my first home at the age of 22 with a $3,500 loan from a friend and never looked back.

I had the same discussion with my oldest daughter, now 34, when she left home at 17. She has not asked for as much as a penny. Only calls for moral support from time to time. Doing well. 3 kids, a nice home.

My two youngest daughters, 17 & 14, are probably going to be a little different. Unlike my youngest, they grew up in times of plenty. I don't worry about the oldest since she has the ambition to get ahead. At 17, she's already saving up for a down payment on a home when she graduates from college.

My youngest.... I sure hopes she finds a rich one to support her in the life style she'd like to get accustomed too. No ambitions beyond college but she has the brains and her looks. We?ll see how she does.

 

[fisherguy123]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

"Your son is your boy `til he finds him a wife....your daughter is your girl for the rest of your life!".......True words I say . My son went off to work then university , got married ended up becoming a professional engineer. He never cost a cent after he left home. My daughter is a different story....university course called "party 101"...now her daughter is taking the same course even though I co-signed for her student loans as well. I hope it works out in the end.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

Wow...lots of opnions leaning toward the "tough love" side of this, but as Summer Fun expressed, the world is completely different to day than it was when I was growing up.
In the early 70's employers were falling all over each other to offer a job and paying about $5 per hour. I went to the dentist for an abscessed tooth and I think he charged me about $10 for the consultation, I don't remember what the actual treatment cost, but I'm sure it was not the $2,000+ that the dentist is estimating for this problem.
Jobs are hard to find and they pay crap because there are 100 people for every crappy job out there. My daughter is a licenced debt collector and there is no work in her field because there is no way to collect from the defaulting debtors because they have no source of income, so why try. She is working at a Cash Stop store and earns $11 per hour with absolutely no benefits. Her manager worked at one of the largest credit collectors in the country for over 20 years and got laid off last year....she earns $15 per hour.

As my wife says..."try wearing her shoes for a while and see what you'd do."

And from my eldest daughter who has never asked for anything "It doesn't hurt to ask"....

That's so true. A forum thanks if I could give you one.

People need to get out of that mindset that you solve problems by throwing kids out of the house. No, you create the potential for criminals who do anything necessary to try to get by. I have done everything I can reasonably think of, going to college, graduating on the deans list from a 4 year university in finance, obtaining a pilots license and airplane mechanics license and I still can't find a job. They just aren't out there. People's ignorance of how the present times are is mind boggling.

I have submitted my resume to God-only knows how many places on every employment website I know of and I've gotten a single call back, only to find out that my "fudging" of experience to try to get in the door had been discovered and I wasn't going to be considered.

With the tough economy right now, all mechanic places want people with experience "ready to hit the ground running" as several told me. That never used to be the case. Everyone was always willing to accept "newbies" right out of school and train them on the job. Now, nobody without experience is getting in unless you "know someone." Well, I used to, but lost all my connections when I lost my job at the airport a few years ago because my employer went out of business. Now I'm not allowed on the airport without a badge, and won't be able to get one because I have no "business" being there (meaning I don't work at the airport anymore.)

It's tough times right now. Like I said before, I have a higher level of education than either of my parents, any of my relatives, etc, yet I make way less than they do even when I had a job. What's the difference? They entered the job market in 1970-1990, I entered in 1998. I didn't have any real qualifications until last year, by then, it was too late.

So by all means, you people keep on your "tough love" stance and keep telling yourself you're doing all the good. Obviously you either 1. Have no clue what the job market is like right now or 2. You had it done to you as a kid so you're passing on the tradition. Either way, I don't feel it's the right thing to do.

Kids kicked out of the house are the ones most likely to get caught up in criminal activity. Employment, a place to live and a strong family and friend network are the 3 things that keep people out of trouble. Throw them out, and see how many of those 3 things you leave them with.

 

[eastont]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

That's so true. A forum thanks if I could give you one.

Kids kicked out of the house are the ones most likely to get caught up in criminal activity. Employment, a place to live and a strong family and friend network are the 3 things that keep people out of trouble. Throw them out, and see how many of those 3 things you leave them with.

My wife works in corrections with troubled and mentally ill inmates, and over 95% of them had difficulty at home. The worst are the ones who had to fend for themselves and did so through criminal acts, and once they get in the system they learn how to be a "professional" criminal.
It is a crime to hear my wife talk about guys who have been in and out of jail since they were 18 and say they can't go straight because nobody will give them a job, especially in this economy....and criminal acts are easier plus they pay better.

 

[jkust]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

People need to get out of that mindset that you solve problems by throwing kids out of the house. No, you create the potential for criminals who do anything necessary to try to get by. I have done everything I can reasonably think of, going to college, graduating on the deans list from a 4 year university in finance, obtaining a pilots license and airplane mechanics license and I still can't find a job. They just aren't out there. People's ignorance of how the present times are is mind boggling.

I have submitted my resume to God-only knows how many places on every employment website I know of and I've gotten a single call back, only to find out that my "fudging" of experience to try to get in the door had been discovered and I wasn't going to be considered.

With the tough economy right now, all mechanic places want people with experience "ready to hit the ground running" as several told me. That never used to be the case. Everyone was always willing to accept "newbies" right out of school and train them on the job. Now, nobody without experience is getting in unless you "know someone." Well, I used to, but lost all my connections when I lost my job at the airport a few years ago because my employer went out of business. Now I'm not allowed on the airport without a badge, and won't be able to get one because I have no "business" being there (meaning I don't work at the airport anymore.)

It's tough times right now. Like I said before, I have a higher level of education than either of my parents, any of my relatives, etc, yet I make way less than they do even when I had a job. What's the difference? They entered the job market in 1970-1990, I entered in 1998. I didn't have any real qualifications until last year, by then, it was too late.

So by all means, you people keep on your "tough love" stance and keep telling yourself you're doing all the good. Obviously you either 1. Have no clue what the job market is like right now or 2. You had it done to you as a kid so you're passing on the tradition. Either way, I don't feel it's the right thing to do.

Kids kicked out of the house are the ones most likely to get caught up in criminal activity. Employment, a place to live and a strong family and friend network are the 3 things that keep people out of trouble. Throw them out, and see how many of those 3 things you leave them with.

So by your logic all kids kicked from the nest as they enter adulthood are automatic criminals or are lucky to not become criminals. That strikes me as more of the enabling and the world owes me mentality.
If I'm being honest, a person needs to be willing to change their paradigm and get a new career path going. Back to school for something different where you are needed or wanted. Move to a better economic environment or whatever. You can sit and complain (as it is coming off) or quit doing the same thing over and over and move on to something new. Yeah it is a bummer that noone wants your skill set right now. Try something else. Sounds like your fudging of experience borders on criminal activity had you been hired and discovered later. This all just strikes me as a whole lotta whining and not much problem solving. Sometimes people actually stay out of trouble because they have ethics and a will to succeed even without the 3 things support system. I'd like to hear a positive ending to your situation. I didn't catch where you are located but things are fantastic here in Minnesota. I have yet to even one time or instance meet even one person directly affected by the economy very badly. In fact the only real issues that have negatively affected people I know are the myriad of new federal regulations. Our unemployment rate is hovering around 7% not too horribly much more than the natural rate. If you can stand some of the highest taxes in the 50 states, you will likely find success here and we have more lakes than you can visit in a lifetime. By the way I entered the job market in 1999 and haven't looked back.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

So by your logic all kids kicked from the nest as they enter adulthood are automatic criminals or are lucky to not become criminals. That strikes me as more of the enabling and the world owes me mentality.
If I'm being honest, a person needs to be willing to change their paradigm and get a new career path going. Back to school for something different where you are needed or wanted. Move to a better economic environment or whatever. You can sit and complain (as it is coming off) or quit doing the same thing over and over and move on to something new. Yeah it is a bummer that noone wants your skill set right now. Try something else. Sounds like your fudging of experience borders on criminal activity had you been hired and discovered later. This all just strikes me as a whole lotta whining and not much problem solving. Sometimes people actually stay out of trouble because they have ethics and a will to succeed even without the 3 things support system. I'd like to hear a positive ending to your situation. I didn't catch where you are located but things are fantastic here in Minnesota. I have yet to even one time or instance meet even one person directly affected by the economy very badly. In fact the only real issues that have negatively affected people I know are the myriad of new federal regulations. Our unemployment rate is hovering around 7% not too horribly much more than the natural rate. If you can stand some of the highest taxes in the 50 states, you will likely find success here and we have more lakes than you can visit in a lifetime. By the way I entered the job market in 1999 and haven't looked back.

If you interpret "create the potential for criminals" to mean "automatic criminals", then I guess yes. Why are you trying to push your agenda by completely misquoting what I say? I'm not going to let that fly.

Not sure if anyone else on this planet thinks like you do, but so be it. Our unemployment rate is 9.4% with a true unemployment rate in the high teens. Don't kid yourself, there are a lot of people who have quit looking for work, thus the unemployment rate drop.

You said:

I have yet to even one time or instance meet even one person directly affected by the economy very badly. In fact the only real issues that have negatively affected people I know are the myriad of new federal regulations.

As I already stated, the drilling moratorium imposed by the president over the Gulf oil spill has practically shut down off shore drilling. This "shutting down" has greatly decreased the demand for helicopters, and thus heli mechanics, which is what I am. You haven't met anyone who has been directly affected by the economy? Where you live? Planet Klingon? Obviously you don't live in Louisiana, a state that exists because of it's offshore oil reserves. Our president cut off our source of income, and amazingly, thousands have lost their jobs. I promise you, Jay Merril would back me up on this. He know's how bad it is here.

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

So by your logic all kids kicked from the nest as they enter adulthood are automatic criminals or are lucky to not become criminals. That strikes me as more of the enabling and the world owes me mentality.
If I'm being honest, a person needs to be willing to change their paradigm and get a new career path going. Back to school for something different where you are needed or wanted. Move to a better economic environment or whatever. You can sit and complain (as it is coming off) or quit doing the same thing over and over and move on to something new. Yeah it is a bummer that noone wants your skill set right now. Try something else. Sounds like your fudging of experience borders on criminal activity had you been hired and discovered later. This all just strikes me as a whole lotta whining and not much problem solving. Sometimes people actually stay out of trouble because they have ethics and a will to succeed even without the 3 things support system. I'd like to hear a positive ending to your situation. I didn't catch where you are located but things are fantastic here in Minnesota. I have yet to even one time or instance meet even one person directly affected by the economy very badly. In fact the only real issues that have negatively affected people I know are the myriad of new federal regulations. Our unemployment rate is hovering around 7% not too horribly much more than the natural rate. If you can stand some of the highest taxes in the 50 states, you will likely find success here and we have more lakes than you can visit in a lifetime. By the way I entered the job market in 1999 and haven't looked back.

The Cities and the surrounding areas in Minnesota have not experienced the economic down turn to the degree the rest of the country has. There are several other areas that have not seen the degree of downturn Salt Lake city UT comes to mind as another. But theses regions are the exception rather than the rule in today's economy.
Waterinthefuel lives in Louisiana an area deeply effected.

 

[PopsRacer]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

Just curious... Have you tried just strictly dealing with one of them one on one then using that one to help you work with the others??

My kids are still young at 15 and 13 so I may be way off base here, but my discipline and talks with one is never done in private away from the other... We all sit down in the same room and I ask the other's opinions as I'm talking with one. I've found that it teaches them both at the same time as we hash it out and the other can remind the one when I'm not around. My kids are very stubborn and honestly, I don't think the same way as my parents, and my kids don't think the same way as I do, so I don't waste my time trying to teach them common sense. Instead I ask them their thoughts and what they think then make suggestions.. Trust me when i say this is TOTALLY against my heritage redneck nature but it's the only dadgumned way I can get anything to stick and it seems to work.

I never had a Dad around to learn from until I was older so I've been having to learn about parenting as I go. - lol....

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

The Cities and the surrounding areas in Minnesota have not experienced the economic down turn to the degree the rest of the country has. There are several other areas that have not seen the degree of downturn Salt Lake city UT comes to mind as another. But theses regions are the exception rather than the rule in today's economy.
Waterinthefuel lives in Louisiana an area deeply effected.

That's right, we've had a double whammy here in Louisiana.

Not only do we have the general bad economy to deal with, but our old fall back commodity which kept us afloat in past recessions was the oil and gas industry which, although it has fluctuated, has at least always been there as a fall back for people out of work. Now even THAT is gone.

So we are REALLY hurting here. We are the only state that has been hit this hard with the moratorium. So no other state, with Texas being a close second, can claim as much damage when the president whipped out his pen and banned offshore drilling for several months last year.

 

[jkust]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

If you interpret "create the potential for criminals" to mean "automatic criminals", then I guess yes. Why are you trying to push your agenda by completely misquoting what I say? I'm not going to let that fly.

Not sure if anyone else on this planet thinks like you do, but so be it. Our unemployment rate is 9.4% with a true unemployment rate in the high teens. Don't kid yourself, there are a lot of people who have quit looking for work, thus the unemployment rate drop.

You said: As I already stated, the drilling moratorium imposed by the president over the Gulf oil spill has practically shut down off shore drilling. This "shutting down" has greatly decreased the demand for helicopters, and thus heli mechanics, which is what I am. You haven't met anyone who has been directly affected by the economy? Where you live? Planet Klingon? Obviously you don't live in Louisiana, a state that exists because of it's offshore oil reserves. Our president cut off our source of income, and amazingly, thousands have lost their jobs. I promise you, Jay Merril would back me up on this. He know's how bad it is here.

No not trying to force any agenda. I don't subscribe to the people can't stand on their own without a big support system. As silly as my misinterpretation sounds to you is as silly as your rational sounds to me. I understand the Louisiana situation and absolutly sympathise with you because the moritorium is politically motivated as was what caused the economic situation. My whole point is get out of there into somewhere less affected. It's not fair, it's difficult and certainly isn't likely what you envisioned after taking all of the correct steps in life. I understand economics and how the unemployment rate is calculated and underreported. The moritorium is morally corrupt and I think it is just egregious but like I said get out of there and move on. I literally don't know anyone truly affected by the economy. It is what it is. Yes it almost sounds absurd but some places have been shielded from the worst of the downturn. My house is worth as much as it is way back when I bought it but that's about the extent of it for us. One neighbor, a financial analyst, was laid off but got an equivalent job before his time was up. Look, I do business all over the country and parts of the UK. Midwesterners have a somewhat different outlook on things but we don't have one dominant industry either. I'd bet you could take your finance degree and slide right on into a great job here.

 

[Philip_G]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

When parents stop indulging them.

I've always been the independent type. I think I borrowed $500 from my father once in college to finish up a class, that's the only time I've asked for anything since I was 18. I wouldn't think of asking for anything in my late 20's. I'd probably be homeless before I'd ask now honestly.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

Children have to be pushed to succeed just like they need to be pushed to learn, play sports, strive to be better or what ever you want to call it, once they turn 17 or 18 they need to get out on their own, I can understand helping children that go to college if you can afford to but sometimes children just want the freedom of becoming an adult and that means that they get the whole deal. I have one in College (19)and she doesn't cost me a dime. My nearly 18 yr old (January 26th) has decided she is an adult now, she didn't want to respect curfew, or calling to stay overnight at a friends house so she got the E ticket to adulthood by way of my boot up her hind end right out of the house Congratulations your now an adult. I cannot have her corrupting my youngest and I don't need the hassle I am a single father of three daughters, This is her path but its not possible to generalize all kids some are exactly what you wish in a child throughout their adolescent years, others are not they each have their own paths.

 

[lncoop]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

My parents were a little too indulgent with me, but that's just the kind of people they are. They'd rather go hungry than see anyone suffer. Fortunately I married a good woman who taught me how to stand on my own two feet, but I know if we ever really needed anything my folks would be right there.

 

[PopsRacer]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

My parents were a little too indulgent with me, but that's just the kind of people they are. They'd rather go hungry than see anyone suffer. Fortunately I married a good woman who taught me how to stand on my own two feet, but I know if we ever really needed anything my folks would be right there.

That's AWESOME!!!! I'm sooo jealous... - lol

 

[PW2]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

Start young. If you wait till their 18 till they're responsible for themselves you are heading for trouble.

I remember when my kids were young--they had chores and allowances--whatever...they'd see some goofy thing advertised on TV that was too good to be true, and they'd want to buy it. I'd of course tell them it's a waste, but if they had the money that they earned and still wanted to buy it, I'd say go for it.

You learn lots more making mistakes than you ever do being told what to do...

As far as "the world had changed" I call BS on that one.

The world is hard. It was hard. It's still hard. Deal with it.

My daughter just turned 30, has been blind since age 5, and making six figures at Microsoft.
It's possible.

 

[eastont]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

Jkust:
I live in Ontario, Canada and our economy is a bit better of than the US, overall, but it still sucks. Our posted unemployment is 7.8% federally, but ranges from 6% -10% depending on where in the country you reside, and the real unemployment is probably double that. Our economy is very closely tied to the US, as the saying goes "When the US coughs, Canada gets a cold"
Minnesota is lucky compared with some other states such as Louisiana, and the worst being Nevada and California. I'm glad the opportunities for employment are good where you live, but open your eyes to the whole picture...

PopsRacer:
I tried to do just what you suggest, talking as a family, having each other help with their problems and issues. That worked until they developed there own strong opinions, decided that the other one was an idiot for thinking that way and, no I'm not going to look at it that way you're wrong...etc., etc.

PW2:
I'm afraid you're wrong, the world has changed since the days when I was growing. There was not a homeless person to be seen, now they're everywhere....why?

As to the comments regarding creating criminal behaviour, I'm not going to delve deeply into it, but corrections took $68 Billion out of the US economy in 2010.

I think when you have a good, honest and open relationship with your children and they know you care deeply for their welfare, then asking for things is a normal situation. I would dread the thought that they were afraid to ask for help. And unlike some others who came cap in hand to ask for a helping hand, they have yet come come in their private jet....LOL

And as my eldest daughter says " It doesn't hurt to ask, you can always say no" and I do 99% of the time depending on the situation.
I most likely will cover the costs of my youngest's dental bill...after I have a talk with the dentist to see if there are options. I was once told I needed a root canal and the cost was going to be over $1,000, so I asked what other options I had, and he said "Well, we can pull it" second tooth from the back, it was removed immediately and I think the cost was under $100.