When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

[BeaufortTJustice]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

Sorry for the rant, but how do we get it through their heads about being responsible and staying within your needs and saving some money for what might happen in the future...

This is not what you want to hear, but it is probably too late...

Learning to live within one's means is a lesson that is best taught early in life.

My parents always told me that they would sell everything they owned to keep me breathing, but I was on my own if I got in over my head in debt or didn't save money like I should.

Best financial advice I ever got was from my father, who always preached to save for a rainy day...I lived in a nasty, dirty apt with roommates for several years when I started my career, so I could save up about 1 yrs worth of salary to have behind me. I also made sure to get into a career that offerred steady income and benefits...I'll never by "rich" in my career, but I will make enough to have a decent standard of living.

Contrast that with my brother-in-law...several years ago he made some disparaging comments about my salary, or lack thereof, when he was just out of college and looking to "get rich quick." He took a job with an insurance company for 100% commission and no benefits (for 6 or 12 months at least). His recruiter told him that after a year, he could make over 100k. After 6 months he got let go b/c he couldn't sell cold water to someone in the desert. He's lived at home since then and works various min. wage, part time gigs. He's holding out for upper management!..lol.

Obviously, if you are in a position to provide such substantial assistance, you must have some level of financial savvy...perhaps your loans should come with a financial intervention, along the lines of, "I'll loan you this money, but I want control of your finances until such a time as I feel you are ready to handle your own affairs." If she agrees, then you'll have an opportunity to work out a plan to get her back on her feet, all while knowing that her bills are being paid and hopefully heading off any other disasters.

Good luck!

 

[jonesg]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

My wife works in corrections with troubled and mentally ill inmates, and over 95% of them had difficulty at home. The worst are the ones who had to fend for themselves and did so through criminal acts, and once they get in the system they learn how to be a "professional" criminal.
It is a crime to hear my wife talk about guys who have been in and out of jail since they were 18 and say they can't go straight because nobody will give them a job, especially in this economy....and criminal acts are easier plus they pay better.

They weren't taught survival skills or are too selfish to care.
Fending for oneself through crime is a choice, a selfish and lazy choice.

"and say they can't go straight because nobody will give them a job"

BS.

 

[jonesg]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

Jkust:
PopsRacer:
I tried to do just what you suggest, talking as a family, having each other help with their problems and issues. That worked until they developed there own strong opinions, decided that the other one was an idiot for thinking that way and, no I'm not going to look at it that way you're wrong...etc., etc.

PW2:
I'm afraid you're wrong, the world has changed since the days when I was growing. There was not a homeless person to be seen, now they're everywhere....why?

.

If you never teach children the fact that opinions are worthless, they'll grow up thinking every stupid thought that goes thru the average mind is real. Most opinion is fear based and not real. In those family arguments they're all expressing their fears of themselves and fear of each others answer, and no-one has an answer if they can't see the truth.

My freinds son (14 yrs old) took his dads car and damaged it a bit on a joy ride around the block, his dad asked "how would you punish him"?
I just said "start by apologizing for being such a sloppy parent."

There was always the homeless, there are more since the ACLU initiated lawsuits to empty the institutions 20 yrs ago.

 

[PW2]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

Eastont said
PW2

"I'm afraid you're wrong, the world has changed since the days when I was growing. There was not a homeless person to be seen, now they're everywhere....why?"

Well, I have no idea why homelessness is high, but I refused to teach my kids that it was OK to fail.
I insisted on teaching them that it was important to work hard in order to succeed, and the world is not necessarily fair.

Especially in the case of my blind daughter, who I was constantly accused of being far too hard on.
So it goes.

And FTR, neither she nor I think I was too hard on her, and that's all who matter!

 

[jonesg]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

Start young. If you wait till their 18 till they're responsible for themselves you are heading for trouble.

I remember when my kids were young--they had chores and allowances--whatever...they'd see some goofy thing advertised on TV that was too good to be true, and they'd want to buy it. I'd of course tell them it's a waste, but if they had the money that they earned and still wanted to buy it, I'd say go for it.

You learn lots more making mistakes than you ever do being told what to do...

As far as "the world had changed" I call BS on that one.

The world is hard. It was hard. It's still hard. Deal with it.

My daughter just turned 30, has been blind since age 5, and making six figures at Microsoft.
It's possible.

PW2 gets it.
There is nothing new under the sun.

 

[lncoop]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

I'd just like to commend everyone for their civility. I must say I envisioned a very quick closing of this thread. It's such a tough question with no 100% correct answer. We all have our own parenting styles. Sometimes we hit home runs with our younguns, sometimes we strike out. I'm just grateful that I was blessed with such outstanding parents even though they likely weren't strict enough on me, but then I was blessed with a spouse whose parents were waaaaay too strict on her because they didn't know how to raise children and refused to learn. Won't get into that except to say we make a great parenting team if I do say so myself, because we counter-balance each other as a result of our diametrically opposite upbringings.

 

[Mark42]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

My folks policy was simple and no nonsense. On your 18th birthday regardless of if it was during the school year or not here in cold Minnesota, you would find all of your belongings in the front yard. I took what I could fit in my car I purchased at 15 years old from the job I held at 14 years old since never could we use our parents cars. (Yes I paid for my own car insurance from the first day I got my drivers license.) If you can't fit it in the car, it was burned in a pit in the back yard and we were to never return home. In my case I carried two boxes away and then all my possessions, furniture, starwars guys and everything else was burned. I nor my sister ever returned home and we are talking 1990's not 1970's. There was no discussion of college, any assistance of any kind ever regardless of if it is life or death. In the most literal sense my sister and I lived or died based on the decisions made from that day onward. Now people wonder why I am as conservative as I am and why I see hangers on in a negative light........ .

I was wondering what sort of relationship you and your sister have with your parents after they had the personal possessions bonfire..... Or is that account humor?

 

[RetNav]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

I have been a member here for a while now, but don't post much.
My wife and her son came into my life when the boy was 9 years old. She had tried to always be his friend and so I had a lot of difficulties with the boy.
He is now 25, is married, has his own home, two cars and works a full time job and two (2) part time jobs even in this hard economy. The only help he asks
for is technical supervision on repairs of his cars/home which I am glad to supply.
I jokingly told him early on that when he turned 18 I was going to break his plate. I guess he took my comments as fact because when he was 18 he moved
out and has never asked to move back. He takes care of his own business as needed and we have a great relationship.

 

[PopsRacer]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

PopsRacer:
I tried to do just what you suggest, talking as a family, having each other help with their problems and issues. That worked until they developed there own strong opinions, decided that the other one was an idiot for thinking that way and, no I'm not going to look at it that way you're wrong...etc., etc.

Why are you giving your hard earned money away to someone who won't listen to you, and I mean really listen?? I understand the suck up when in need, why give in to it?? I'd sit Momma down and come to an agreement with her then stand up to my part of it.

..My freinds son (14 yrs old) took his dads car and damaged it a bit on a joy ride around the block, his dad asked "how would you punish him"?
I just said "start by apologizing for being such a sloppy parent.".

Apologize?? How about just teaching the kid to drive right so he won't wreck it next time?? -lol

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

PW2 gets it.
There is nothing new under the sun.

Just saying it doesn't make it true.

Many people have done studies and pointed out that aviation is at its lowest point since WW2. That's not debatable, that is fact. Sales are way down, everything is way down except cost of renting. That's way up. I know a lot of out-of-work aviation mechanics, especially around here. Pointing out that some blind girl "made it" doesn't remove the fact that many other perfectly capable people can't make it, no matter what they do. You really think 25 million unemployed people are unemployed because of a mass wave of laziness that has hit this country? If you think that, then you really are a lost cause.

Never in the history of our state has the gov't forced oil companies to stop drilling. Yea, nothing's different. Same ol' same ol'.

 

[Philip_G]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

Many people have done studies and pointed out that aviation is at its lowest point since WW2. That's not debatable, that is fact. Sales are way down, everything is way down except cost of renting.

I assume they refer to general aviation, and I would agree, but certainly not with commercial. Sunday after new years was almost an all time record traffic count as a matter of fact. (in my little corner of the world)

GA has been plagued with problems, the number of trainees is down, why? Well 100LL is $4 a gallon, the GA fleet is aging because a new airplane is 100K (i'd be interested to see a time adjusted cost comparison between a C162 and a cub when new, might be interesting) and MX costs are up, insurance is up, airspace is more crowded and more complex, the jobs aren't there at the majors and don't pay what they used to, making the lifestyle less attractive... New technology like ADS-B threatens to saddle owners with a big upgrade bill, 100LL is under attack... Those are my own factpinions.

A club I used to fly at looked at buying an old taildragger to do tailwheel in, they wanted 15k a year to insure it, that's more than the cost of the airplane.


Ok back to your regularly scheduled rant session
/airplane talk
(coincidentally the $500 I borrowed in college from my father was to take a checkride)

 

[PW2]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

It may well be you can't live where you want to live, do what you want to do, live the way you want to live depending on the local economy.

So it goes. It's like sailing. Sometimes the prevailing winds don't allow a straight course.
So you tack. you don't jump overboard. Cursing the wind direction may well make you feel better, but it is rarely an effective strategy.

 

[eastont]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

So it goes. It's like sailing. Sometimes the prevailing winds don't allow a straight course.
So you tack. you don't jump overboard. Cursing the wind direction may well make you feel better, but it is rarely an effective strategy.

That's just about what this thread has done....tacked and strayed from the original course.
It has been interesting to read about individual feel good stories, about some struggles that people have endured and how some people do/did bring up their children, but I feel the original point of my post was as many said.....we have created this expectation by our children ourselves.
Children look and listen to what goes on around them. When they see that there's a new car in the driveway, a bigger boat at the dock, discover the mortgage has been cleared or driven us to the airport for a trip to some exotic place, they presume there might be some liquid funds that could be easier to handle that a lending institution. When the credit card bill come in it has to be paid by the due date.....if mom & dad's bill come due it's so easy to say " Can I wait until payday to pay you this month? Or can we change the payment amounts/terms?"

Although they asked for $50,000 or to co-sign a mortgage or any other outrageous request, the only thing that happened was giving a daughter a car. And that was really a gift to our granddaughter, who's 5. Her mother has finally, after over 5 years found steady employment that entails shift work and the late shift means she is off work at 9PM.
With the bus system where she lives it meant that by the time she picked up the granddaughter she wasn't home until 11:30pm, and on the day shift she had to leave her house by 5:30am and far as my wife is concerned that's not good for her granddaughter's health. So now she is home by 9:30 and can leave for work at 7:30.

And.... all the borrowed money is paid back, sometimes a little later than planned, but it is paid.

This coming weekend we are having a conference call with all the children to advise them that we are having a will prepared and upon death, that we are donating our organs for transplant.

 

[PopsRacer]

Re: When do children stand up on their own?????????????????

You likely already know this, but keep in mind that many Wills get contested and changed after death, so you'll want to go through the proper procedures and filings to make sure things turn out the way you intend them to. My folks spent a few years assisting my grandmother in doing so before she passed... IIRC, I seem to recall something along the lines of having multiple copies filed away wasn't enough so setting up Trust Funds was necessary so that my folks and uncles would get exactly what she intended for them to have...