Why don't most boats have mirrors?

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

Why don't most boats have mirrors?

Short answer... Because Ralph Nader had nothing to do with boats

Long answer... Because as the above posters have stated, the rules of navigating a boat, plus fully operational C1-C7 cervical bones negate the need for mirrors.

In drivers education, didn't they say "check your blind spots" I.E. physically turn your head to check for vehicles you can't see in your mirrors?
The mirrors on a motor vehicle while useful, are just a crutch that gives you a distorted reflection of a vehicle, if the vehicle is even within range of the mirrors. You are still responsible to turn your head and look for any vehicles that may be in your path if you change lanes. No different with a boat.

 

[Myrtonos]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

Why don't most boats have mirrors?

Short answer... Because Ralph Nader had nothing to do with boats

But side mirrors existed on motor vehicles before Ralph Nadar.

Long answer... Because as the above posters have stated, the rules of navigating a boat, plus fully operational C1-C7 cervical bones negate the need for mirrors.

Then why don't they eliminate the need for mirrors on motor vehicles? And are fully operation C1-C7 cerival bones are requriement for getting either a terrestrial or marine drivers license. Are the medical standards of any given class of skipper license any different from the equivalent class of road vehicle license, for example are the standards for a Class D any different from a license to drive a similary sized vessel.

In drivers education, didn't they say "check your blind spots" I.E. physically turn your head to check for vehicles you can't see in your mirrors?
The mirrors on a motor vehicle while useful, are just a crutch that gives you a distorted reflection of a vehicle, if the vehicle is even within range of the mirrors. You are still responsible to turn your head and look for any vehicles that may be in your path if you change lanes. No different with a boat.

Indeed you are responsible to turn your head to checking vehicles or vessels that may be in your path if you veer one way or the other, yet motor vehicles, but not vessels are requried to have mirrors.

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

Myrtonos, you seem to be trying to rationalize a response to dispute every post that doesn't support mirrors. Car mirrors each see limited but defined areas, that's why you need three, and still have to look to see the blind spots. In a car, you have limited range of motion to look around. You are not so limited in a boat.
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I will repeat a phrase from my earlier post: "on the water, boats suddenly appear out of nowhere". You don't see them, then suddenly you do and wander why you didn't see them sooner. Tough enough without trying to do that with a mirror.

If you want mirrors, by all means, put them on. But if I'm coming up behind you, please hang a sign, something like "Mirror Driver. Give Wide Berth"

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

It amazes me how a simple subject can go so far,lol You guys are great, seriously, I really enjoy all the responses. Some of them have me laughing for days on some of these posts.

The op's original question was, "I am wondering why most watercraft don't have side or rearview mirrors, as these might be useful in certain situations, they may be helpful in checking for vessels behind you."

The simple answer is because you don't need them.

On larger boats which alot of you don't consider in these forums, the use of mirrors would be useless unless they were 4' mirrors. Can you see that on each side of the bow of my dads two story houseboat,lol:facepalm:

Cameras are much more practical for larger boats on a laptop sitting on the helm. But just like while in smaller boats, you have to turn your head to see whats around you to make sure.

 

[Myrtonos]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

Myrtonos, you seem to be trying to rationalize a response to dispute every post that doesn't support mirrors. Car mirrors each see limited but defined areas, that's why you need three, and still have to look to see the blind spots. In a car, you have limited range of motion to look around. You are not so limited in a boat.

On a seagoing vessel, you are not so limited, true, but on inland waterways such as rivers and canals, you do indeed have a limited range of motion to look around.

I will repeat a phrase from my earlier post: "on the water, boats suddenly appear out of nowhere". You don't see them, then suddenly you do and wander why you didn't see them sooner. Tough enough without trying to do that with a mirror.

If you want mirrors, by all means, put them on. But if I'm coming up behind you, please hang a sign, something like "Mirror Driver. Give Wide Berth"

What does give wide berth mean? Why not tell that to posters supporting mirrors?

It amazes me how a simple subject can go so far,lol You guys are great, seriously, I really enjoy all the responses. Some of them have me laughing for days on some of these posts.

The op's original question was, "I am wondering why most watercraft don't have side or rearview mirrors, as these might be useful in certain situations, they may be helpful in checking for vessels behind you."

The simple answer is because you don't need them.

On larger boats which alot of you don't consider in these forums, the use of mirrors would be useless unless they were 4' mirrors. Can you see that on each side of the bow of my dads two story houseboat,lol:facepalm:

Cameras are much more practical for larger boats on a laptop sitting on the helm. But just like while in smaller boats, you have to turn your head to see whats around you to make sure.

Larger boats typically carry more people and have more crew, so there are typically observers, but let's not forget periscopes.

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

QUOTE]On a seagoing vessel, you are not so limited, true, but on inland waterways such as rivers and canals, you do indeed have a limited range of motion to look around.[/QUOTE] You may have limited space to react or steer but your visuals are not limited any more that as you put it, seagoing vessels. By the way, my boat is a seagoing vessel but its on a river. I boat a river all the time and have perfect 360 degree visual all the time unless the wether is bad.. Then my radar usually helps.

What does give wide berth mean? Why not tell that to posters supporting mirrors?

If you don't know what give wide birth means, just maybe you should take aboating coarse.

Larger boats typically carry more people and have more crew, so there are typically observers, but let's not forget periscopes.

Maybe on a two hundred foot boat, but most large cruisers though they can carry more people, nost the time those are just passengers.

Umm, to give you an example, my dads pilot house, you can not see anything around you basically. maybe some to the sides and some and clearly whats in front of you. Most larger vessels have radar that they depend on most for situational awareness. Some like my dads have 360 degree cameras. Some even have flir cameras with night vision. But most larger vessels will rely on radar to navigate and really are not worried about a small boat with mirrors coming around them most times.

Another example is when you are it rough weather, closed hardtop inclosure like mine with canvas up. You won't be relying on mirrors to navigate.

 

[CoffeeHound]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

In my old boat ,, there was a mirror ,, could never use it.. Too many heads in the way ~~~
Was used more for lipstick and fixin hair, and never adjusted right for me to use !!

 

[Myrtonos]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

You may have limited space to react or steer but your visuals are not limited any more that as you put it, seagoing vessels. By the way, my boat is a seagoing vessel but its on a river. I boat a river all the time and have perfect 360 degree visual all the time unless the wether is bad.. Then my radar usually helps.

Do you seriously have eyes on the sides of your heads, aren't you a human, not a mule? The normal human visual field is 170 degrees, I don't know the regulations in your US state, but here in Australia, the minimum visual field for driving motor vehicles is only 120 degrees, also anyone who has an unrestriced terrestrial driver's licenece, you are deemed to meet the medical standards for the marine equivalent. That said, one can of course turn one's head to look around for other things.

A boat on a river has as much space to react of steer as a car on an undivided road of the same width. On a lake or a sea, and on the widest rivers, there is more space to steer or react than on any road. The reason that a motorist only has a limited range to look around is because one is mostly dealing with vehicles going in the same direction or in the opposite direction, same with boats on rivers and canals. But on more open bodies of water one may encounter vessels from any direction wherever.

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

That said, one can of course turn one's head to look around for other things.

^^^^^Bingo!!!^^^^^ You can actually stop a boat in its tracks and turn it on a dime. You my friend have obviously not done much boating on rivers or anywhere I am thinking. No offense of coarse, but it seems that way.

If you think that you don't get approached from every direction on a river, you are sadly mistaken. The whole point of this thread is about mirror use on the water, you simply should not rely on them only for navigation, just like you would not rely on them only in a car.

By the way, if you know anything about broadband radar, you would realize I IN FACT, do have eyes in the back of my head, and on the sides,lmao.

 

[Myrtonos]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

That said, one can of course turn one's head to look around for other things.

^^^^^Bingo!!!^^^^^ You can actually stop a boat in its tracks and turn it on a dime. You my friend have obviously not done much boating on rivers or anywhere I am thinking. No offense of coarse, but it seems that way.

I've seen quite a few rivers many times, I've even seen water traffic on those rivers.

If you think that you don't get approached from every direction on a river, you are sadly mistaken.

I don't get it, how on earth could a river boater be approached from a direction perpendicular to the river's course, other than at river confluences? Where it is just like two road vehicles at an uncontrolled intersection also approaching at right angles.

The whole point of this thread is about mirror use on the water, you simply should not rely on them only for navigation, just like you would not rely on them only in a car.

Most boaters don't rely on mirrors for any navigation at all, though some do, motorists almost invariably rely on mirrors some of the time.

By the way, if you know anything about broadband radar, you would realize I IN FACT, do have eyes in the back of my head, and on the sides,lmao.

I have heard of radar before, but not broadband radar. Again, wouldn't that be more useful on lakes and seas?

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

Re: "I don't get it, how on earth could a river boater be approached from a direction perpendicular to the river's course, other than at river confluences? Where it is just like two road vehicles at an uncontrolled intersection also approaching at right angles."

Big river. Ours are a mile or more across. One of the things that makes communications on these forums difficult is each person has a perspective based on his view of the world, and his advice is often based on that, unless he has experienced other places.

 

[Myrtonos]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

What rivers are you thinking of, are the Hudson and Missisippi rivers a mile wide. As long as the river isn't too wide for a bridge over it, surely most river traffic would be following the course of the river. Neither of the navigable rivers here in Melbourne (either the Yarra or the Maribyranong) are that wide so what I am saying about the range one needs to look around does apply. The Murray and Brisbane rivers are wider, but still even there one only needs to look around a limited range of motion.
The rivers you are refering to are wider than any road, the ones I am thinking are similar in width to multi-lane highways.

 

[QC]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

I boat on a narrow river where I can get traffic from any direction. PWCs and Skiboats all make maneuvers that would not seem normal to a boater heading somewhere as a destination.

With that said, I am not sure why this thread needs to be argumentative at all. Mirrors are not required on boats. Please don't start a campaign to make them required equipment. Add one if you want one. Let's move on.

BTW, I am yards away from the Yarra at this moment. No mirrors. All good. Yes, I know it's dark

 

[Myrtonos]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

I boat on a narrow river where I can get traffic from any direction. PWCs and Skiboats all make maneuvers that would not seem normal to a boater heading somewhere as a destination.

What maneuvers do you mean? And how narrow is narrow? No wider than the widest road you've seen?

With that said, I am not sure why this thread needs to be argumentative at all. Mirrors are not required on boats. Please don't start a campaign to make them required equipment. Add one if you want one. Let's move on.

BTW, I am yards away from the Yarra at this moment. No mirrors. All good. Yes, I know it's dark

Yes mirrors are not legally required on boats, nor are they mandated on bicycles. But that doesn't mean they would be useless.

 

[QC]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

OK, so what's the point? This is like a circular argument. Please don't get your thread closed.

"Why aren't there mirrors." Cuz.

"Cuz why?" Cuz.

"Cuz why?" Cuz.

I just don't see how this can go anywhere else . . .

 

[southkogs]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

A boat on a river has as much space to react of steer as a car on an undivided road of the same width. On a lake or a sea, and on the widest rivers, there is more space to steer or react than on any road. The reason that a motorist only has a limited range to look around is because one is mostly dealing with vehicles going in the same direction or in the opposite direction, same with boats on rivers and canals. But on more open bodies of water one may encounter vessels from any direction wherever.

Comparing boats and cars is a truly a false premise. Much like comparing cars and airplanes the traffic on the water is no where near as close in as you would have in cars. In a car on the interstate, I might travel at 70MPH six feet from another vehicle ... put another boat 6' away from me doing 30 MPH and I'm gonna' get real mad real quick (unless it's a scripted run or formation).

Cars are not boats; are not airplanes. Treating them in like-for-like comparisons is a sign of inexperience and presumption.

 

[Myrtonos]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

Comparing boats and cars is a truly a false premise. Much like comparing cars and airplanes the traffic on the water is no where near as close in as you would have in cars. In a car on the interstate, I might travel at 70MPH six feet from another vehicle ... put another boat 6' away from me doing 30 MPH and I'm gonna' get real mad real quick (unless it's a scripted run or formation).

Is this because boats don't have brakes, and cannot stop as quickly? When is the last time you've seen or heard of a river as busy as the interstate? Even cars are usually further apart on lighter trafficed roads.

Cars are not boats; are not airplanes. Treating them in like-for-like comparisons is a sign of inexperience and presumption.

Simplistic like-for-like comparsions, yes. Cars are not boats, true, but there are simuarities and differences, they aren't just different. Both are manually steered, for example. Certainly comparing cars on the road to boats on the sea or on a lake doesn't make sene but I was comparing rivers to roads.

 

[southkogs]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

Is this because boats don't have brakes, and cannot stop as quickly?

Stopping is different (no brakes), control is different (use a rudder & power), power is different (sail, small outboard, diesels, etc., etc.), environment is different (flow, wake, hydrodynamics, etc. - none of which exists on a road), turning is different (boats slide slightly through turns depending on the hull), speed is different (burdened vessel might be doing 50kts while the privileged vessel is doing 5kts - no speed limits generally speaking) ... the list goes on ...

When is the last time you've seen or heard of a river as busy as the interstate?

Considering some differences: last Saturday. Most of the lakes I run on are impounded rivers. Percy Priest last weekend squeezed us all in the main channel way because the water level was down so far ... it was almost like rush hour downtown - with bass boats.

Simplistic like-for-like comparsions, yes. Cars are not boats, true, but there are simuarities and differences, they aren't just different. Both are manually steered, for example.

So is a horse. But the mechanics are all violently different. A rudder doesn't work like an outboard. An oar doesn't work like an inboard. A canal drive doesn't work like a canoe paddle. Yet all of them interact in the same river/lake/sea/etc.

Certainly comparing cars on the road to boats on the sea or on a lake doesn't make sene but I was comparing rivers to roads.

Rivers and roads are alike in really only one manner - they are narrow (relatively speaking) and follow a path. Even if you erase all other traffic and place a single boat on a 1 mile wide river, the dynamic properties of water flowing over a bed erase nearly all other similarities to a road.

Sorry friend, it just doesn't work out.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

Melbourne Fla or Melbourne NSW?

mate, you are insisting on applying your perspective on "river" to anything called a river worldwide. Small enough for a bridge? two bridges across the James River where I frequent are about 5 miles long each. Streuth.

Sydney Harbour and Fremantle's and Melbourne's harbours would be called "rivers" here even though they are estuaries, perhaps fed by rivers at some point. I've seen them; can't remember Adelaide due to other factors. You would admit that boating there is quite different from the annual regatta/boat race held in the river at Alice Springs?

We can agree that how you boat safely on a "two lane" river and a 5 mile river are different things, on which different practices and equipment will serve you differently. The question was posed as to "boats" and not boats used in narrow and unusual circumstances.

 

[QC]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

Melbourne Fla or Melbourne NSW?

Melbourne VIC

The Yarra goes through downtown Melbourne, but it is in Victoria