Why I post in fuel savings and torque threads . . .

[QC]

Re: Why I post in fuel savings and torque threads . . .

The infrastructure struggle is why we concentrate on single large fleets that return home at night . . . They can afford a station if there are roughly 20 trucks sucking off of it. Ultimately it becomes cents per gallon, you just need enough gallons . . .

 

[Robj]

Re: Why I post in fuel savings and torque threads . . .

The fleet we were looking at had about 100 trucks. But then this was 4 to 5 years ago when diesel was cheaper. Don't know abut the economics today. It was using your competetors system, who are based here in Vancouver.

Today LNG may make sense, but I am sure the cost of it will rise also. The only thing energy costs will do is go up, regardless of whether it is diesel, LNG, CNG, gas or electricity.

I do not believe the LNG arguement of clean burning is relevant with todays diesel engines. The change would be solely based on cost, and future costs.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[Mike Robinson]

Re: Why I post in fuel savings and torque threads . . .

...BC Ferries has a dual-fuel ferry that is not our stuff (lower tech, but still works. . .

Hey QC,

Good thread thanks for sharing!

Do you happen to know which BC ferry it is that's dual fuel and what the other fuel is? I would be very surprised to find that Transport Canada allows LNG as a fuel source on a passenger vessel!

 

[QC]

Re: Why I post in fuel savings and torque threads . . .

Today LNG may make sense, but I am sure the cost of it will rise also. The only thing energy costs will do is go up, regardless of whether it is diesel, LNG, CNG, gas or electricity.

It really doesn't matter that they will all rise as it is the differential that matters . . .

I do not believe the LNG argument of clean burning is relevant with todays diesel engines. The change would be solely based on cost, and future costs.

We as an entire company totally agree . . . with that said, it is also one of the reasons Westport has done better than us up until now. They concentrated on mandated, emissions driven markets with buses and municipal fleets and spark ignited engines. This gave them a revenue stream when the differential was low and the economics were bad. We spent our time finding and delivering units in economically driven markets but we lost the unit volume that came with the other stuff . . . This is why we were in Australia and the UK before them.

Do you happen to know which BC ferry it is that's dual fuel and what the other fuel is? I would be very surprised to find that Transport Canada allows LNG as a fuel source on a passenger vessel!

I can't recall and it may have been decommissioned. It was a small one that crossed a river. It had a drive that spun 360 degrees and they never turned her around. Reverse was by spinning the drive too. It was CNG, a CAT 3406 with a Carbureted system. Very low tech, but it kinda worked. I know of it because they thought about repowering with one of our truck engines. My engineers said no . . .

 

[Robj]

Re: Why I post in fuel savings and torque threads . . .

It really doesn't matter that they will all rise as it is the differential that matters . . .
(

That is my point. The differential is here today, but natural gas prices are low right now. They too will increase, and my guess is that the price gap will narrow.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[Robj]

Re: Why I post in fuel savings and torque threads . . .

I can't recall and it may have been decommissioned. It was a small one that crossed a river. It had a drive that spun 360 degrees and they never turned her around. Reverse was by spinning the drive too. It was CNG, a CAT 3406 with a Carbureted system. Very low tech, but it kinda worked. I know of it because they thought about repowering with one of our truck engines. My engineers said no . . .

It may have been the Albion Ferry in Fort Langley.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[QC]

Re: Why I post in fuel savings and torque threads . . .

I'm almost positive that was it . . .^^^^

 

[Lurker Lou]

Re: Why I post in fuel savings and torque threads . . .

And it was decommissioned because?

 

[Robj]

Re: Why I post in fuel savings and torque threads . . .

The Albion ferry is still running. It will be decomissioned soon, only because there is a bridge being built and it will no longer be required.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[Lurker Lou]

Re: Why I post in fuel savings and torque threads . . .

The Albion ferry is still running. It will be decomissioned soon, only because there is a bridge being built and it will no longer be required.

Have a great day,

Rob.

Pardon me for not following the thread, or perhaps for following in too closely. What fuel is used to power the ferry? Otto Cycle????

 

[Uraijit]

Re: Why I post in fuel savings and torque threads . . .

Natural gas; in compressed gaseous form (Compressed Natural Gas, or 'CNG').

QC's company sells a similar system, but rather than being compressed to 3000-3600 PSI, it is cryogenically frozen, which causes the gas to become liquid. (Liquid Natural Gas, or 'LNG')

Same fuel, just different storage methods.

 

[mthieme]

Re: Why I post in fuel savings and torque threads . . .

Since this thread started I have learned that in the US we have vast untapped NG resources.
I saw a commercial (of all things) which briefly described our resources including a map. The bulk of the resources are in the east coast, conveniently where 70% of the population is. The folks in the northeast which have hard winters could benefit greatly from this (and not continue to get soaked by using oil).
NG is not popular outside of commercial/residential building use yet.
I have seen some of the gas companies trucks and airport busses running on NG.

 

[Robj]

Re: Why I post in fuel savings and torque threads . . .

This is some information I got when I did a quick search:

"The Kulleet is propelled by engines which are dual fuel (diesel and also compressed natural gas). The Kulleet was the second of the two ferries to receive engines capable of running on a dual fuel system in 1988. "

So the ferry is dual fuel.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[QC]

Re: Why I post in fuel savings and torque threads . . .

We can do either LNG or CNG, no difference to the engine, just storage difference. About an even split of our worldwide 1600 units . . . Usually heavy-duty favors LNG, but not always.

 

[QC]

Re: Why I post in fuel savings and torque threads . . .

Lou . . . Otto is spark ignition . . . Mr. Otto and Mr. Diesel are jointly responsible for the demise of society and the destruction of the planet. Other than that, pretty awesome dudes . . .

 

[Lurker Lou]

Re: Why I post in fuel savings and torque threads . . .

Lou . . . Otto is spark ignition . . . Mr. Otto and Mr. Diesel are jointly responsible for the demise of society and the destruction of the planet. Other than that, pretty awesome dudes . . .

Yeah, Kevin. This economy crunch is tough but there is no need of pulling a zkris. Stick with the cryogenic stuff.

 

[Mike Robinson]

Re: Why I post in fuel savings and torque threads . . .

This is some information I got when I did a quick search:

"The Kulleet is propelled by engines which are dual fuel (diesel and also compressed natural gas). The Kulleet was the second of the two ferries to receive engines capable of running on a dual fuel system in 1988. "

So the ferry is dual fuel.

Have a great day,

Rob.

Thanks Rob

Interesting. I am very surprised to find natural gas being used as a fuel on a passenger vessel. I guess I've just learned something new!

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: Why I post in fuel savings and torque threads . . .

Our local energy supplier is running 70+ vehicles, the local police have several cars and vans, the garbage trucks, many of the Taxis, as are 300+ private vehicles, all are running on CNG in the town where we live. These are all dual fuel vehicles, Diesel/Gasoline, CNG vehicles.

The tank station is right around the block from us, is self service with no onsite employees and is open 24hr a day. You pay with a bank debit card.

It offers CNG, Gasoline, E80, E20, Diesel, and there is also a Solar tank station.

There are 19 other local (major cities) energy suppliers in Germany with similar stations, along with leading oil companies like Aral, BP, Esso and TotalFinaElf suppling about 800+ pumps scatered around the country.

There are also upwards of 4000 tank stations for LPG, but as with CNG, these are for the most parts concentrated in the larger metro areas, leaving whole sections of the country without a source to refuel at.

While the number of vehicles produced by the big names is growing, the vehicles offered are limited & often not the types of vehicles people want to buy.

The conversion industry is growing at a much faster rate though. This is because the people doing this can still drive the car of their choice. These tend to be fast, and fun cars people here can no-longer afford to fill up with gasoline, and yes many hot boats are also now converting, but the real problem for the is tanking. Only those trailered can do this.

The problem in Germany, as always, the government (under the control of the big German automobile manufactures) wants to take a big chunk of money for each of these private conversions and does everything bureaucratically possible to stop these.

In eastern Europe these conversions cost but a fraction of what they do here, but these conversions, although built and installed to the same standards, by the same companies, are not allowed on the streets here. It is all a scam to force Germans to have to buy from the big manufactures.

Here is a link, in English (some of it), including actual prices, for those that would like to read a little more.

http://www.gas-tankstellen.de/menu.php

It is not a company that I have linked to, it is a private consumer information website.