Winterization Questions

[MalcolmV8]

Re: Winterization Questions

This thread was great help. I'll be pulling the drain plugs and letting my block and exhaust empty out.

How are you guys adding fuel stabilizer? I assume remove the float housing from the tank and dump directly in? If I try and use the fuel cap I know the hose makes a huge loop before doing into the tank and I'm not sure the stabilizer would make it all the way to the tank.
I'll then run the engine till hopefully the fuel is in the carbs while on muffs then pull off the air cleaner / arrester and fog. I'll have to go find some fogging oil. I assume a common thing at the marine shops.

Thanks again for the helpful thread.
Malcolm

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization Questions

This thread was great help. I'll be pulling the drain plugs and letting my block and exhaust empty out.

How are you guys adding fuel stabilizer? I assume remove the float housing from the tank and dump directly in? If I try and use the fuel cap I know the hose makes a huge loop before doing into the tank and I'm not sure the stabilizer would make it all the way to the tank.
I'll
Malcolm

I put my stabilizer in, then top up tank.
in my case it then has its annual service, winterize, and final tank topup.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Re: Winterization Questions

I put my stabilizer in, then top up tank.
in my case it then has its annual service, winterize, and final tank topup.

Yeah I suppose I could tow it to the gas station and top up. Seems like it might be easier to just pull the float sensor and dump in there though and stir around a little.

 

[TheRussian]

Re: Winterization Questions

While being very new to boating and planning on winterizing my boat for the first time this year (and doing it myself) I am going to avoid AF and follow my Mercuiser manual which states to drain the water. NO MENTION OF AF AT ALL! I think that a huge part of the problem is that EVERY VIDEO THAT I HAVE SEEN ON YOUTUBE USES THE MUFFS AND AF METHOD and completely ignores the need to drain the block!!! This includes a very "professional" and "informative" video by West Marine. We need someone to post a high quality video that explains the need to drain the water instead of attempting to displace it. I cannot say that I am against using AF since I am a rookie, but not draining the block and just using AF seems like flipping a coin on block replacement in the spring. I know that some will reply with "I have done it for years and it worked" but that's just my opinion.

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization Questions

>but not draining the block and just using AF seems like flipping a coin on block replacement.

There is other view .. if you drain, there is possibility some water remains, if you add AF then at least ALL water in system is protected.
Interesting that previously my dealers have always filled with AF mix ...

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Winterization Questions

So, I bought my boat in the spring and this is the first boat I've owned. It is a Merc 4.3 carbed with and Alpha 1 GenII sterndrive. Although I'm generally inclinded to do most basic maintenance myself, I was a little nervous about winterizing because I didn't want to make mistake. A local reputable boat shop does "basic winterization" (drain and fog, no antifreeze needed). I changed the oil, filled and stabilzied the gas tank and took it to the boat shop for winterization. I brought the boat home and decided that since it winterized I would take some time and sort of learn how to winterize for next year. With manual in hand, I started locating the drain plugs. To my surprise when I pulled the block drain plugs, a fair bit of water came out! Probably at least a quart. So my question is, was this drained improperly or is this just the water that hangs out in the nooks and crannies and then worked it's way down during the ride home? If it's normal residual water, then that would be a good argument for using antifreeze.

I decided that I was going to use antifreeze becasue of the amount of water that came out. I put all the plugs back in and unbolted the thermostat housing. This housing has 6 hoses and 2 wires attached to it. It didn't seem like, it would be practical to move the housing far enough out of the way to be able to pour antifreeze in it without damaging something. So, I removed all 6 hoses (that was a pain) and both wires and took the housing completely off. I poured antifreeze in until it overflowed (about 2 gallons). I let it sit for a couple of hours and then drained all the antifreeze again. Is removing the hoses from the tstat housing and then removing the housing the only way to get antifreeze in or is there an easier way?

Any other thoughts on steps that I missed??

My thoughts . . .

The shop probably did not get all of the water out of the block . . . it could be that the drain hole became plugged before the block was empty, or it could be from residual water making its way down to the lower part of the engine.

It all gets back to doing things properly, whether you drain, use antifreeze, or both.

The easier way to get antifreeze into the engine would be to draw it in through the outdrive via a set of 'ear muffs'. Taking the thermostat housing off is one of the hardest ways.

Since your engine was drained of water, anti-freeze would not be necessary, but OK.

As the others have stated, it is best to drain the engine, regardless of using antifreeze or not. I use antifreeze to protect the intake line and related components that lead up to the thermostat housing, then drain the block and manifolds.

 

[BoatDrinksQ5]

Re: Winterization Questions

I would always recommend draining, running AF through block, and draining again....

Don't really want to take engine apart each year to ensure it is fully fully super fully drained, drive around with plugs out.... worry about missing or messing something up.

Prefer a "belt and suspenders approach".... plus i kind of like the idea of a little AF sitting on my block and manifold walls... would flush with a combo of Aerospace 303, fogging oil, and AF if i could lol

 

[Walt T]

Re: Winterization Questions

=========================
While being very new to boating and planning on winterizing my boat for the first time this year (and doing it myself) I am going to avoid AF and follow my Mercuiser manual which states to drain the water. NO MENTION OF AF AT ALL! I think that a huge part of the problem is that EVERY VIDEO THAT I HAVE SEEN ON YOUTUBE USES THE MUFFS AND AF METHOD and completely ignores the need to drain the block!!! This includes a very "professional" and "informative" video by West Marine. We need someone to post a high quality video that explains the need to drain the water instead of attempting to displace it. I cannot say that I am against using AF since I am a rookie, but not draining the block and just using AF seems like flipping a coin on block replacement in the spring. I know that some will reply with "I have done it for years and it worked" but that's just my opinion.
======================================

My reply is, So What?

 

[TheRussian]

Re: Winterization Questions

=========================
While being very new to boating and planning on winterizing my boat for the first time this year (and doing it myself) I am going to avoid AF and follow my Mercuiser manual which states to drain the water. NO MENTION OF AF AT ALL! I think that a huge part of the problem is that EVERY VIDEO THAT I HAVE SEEN ON YOUTUBE USES THE MUFFS AND AF METHOD and completely ignores the need to drain the block!!! This includes a very "professional" and "informative" video by West Marine. We need someone to post a high quality video that explains the need to drain the water instead of attempting to displace it. I cannot say that I am against using AF since I am a rookie, but not draining the block and just using AF seems like flipping a coin on block replacement in the spring. I know that some will reply with "I have done it for years and it worked" but that's just my opinion.
======================================

My reply is, So What?

Well... not following the proper manufacturer's procedure... I guess that's "what"... If your vehicle is rated to tow 2000lbs and you tow 5000lbs it may work, but that's really up to you. Same idea here.

 

[Lou C]

Re: Winterization Questions

Whoever told you that you need to remove the Thermo housing to add AF is flat out wrong. It's very simple. You drain the engine from the drain plugs in the block (poke the drain holes) you disconnect the bottom end of the big hose from the circulation pump on the front of the engine. Re-connect it at the bottom and disconnect it at the Thermo housing. Pour AF in the top end of this hose till you see a bit of AF come out the engine drains, then replace the drains, and keep filling till you see AF appear at the neck of the Thermo housing. Re-connect that hose, engine is full. Easy. Then disco the manifold feed hoses at the Thermo housing and fill em the same way, just till AF runs out the exhaust. Re connect those hoses. Last, disco the raw water intake hose from the transom at the Thermo housing and and point it down in the bilge to drain it . Then fill it with AF till it runs out the water intakes on the out drive. This also pushed water out of the p/s cooler. Re connect hose you're done. Also some late model 4.3s have a drain (square plug) on the front edge of the intake manifold. If you have that drain it too. I put OMC gasket sealer on the threads of all the plugs and they always come out. I've done it this way 10 years no problems ever, you must get ALL the water out first .

Oh and lets get one more thing straight, if you think sucking AF up the drive is a good way to winterize a raw water cooled engine then then you don't understand how raw water cooling works. Idling on the muffs the Thermo may Never open up all the way (idle, no load, cold water, cool air temps). Anyone who would do it that way is sadly mis-informed. Drain it first? Well it's so much easier to drain and manually fill it. What if your impeller does not suck up the AF, you will burn the impeller and the engine will run hot. It happens a lot on engines with an engine mounted impeller. Short cuts will bite you sooner or later

 

[bobhol]

Re: Winterization Questions

I drain my block and the flush it with AF to make sure there are no pockets of water left .I pull three hoses and put 4 litres of AF thru the block till I see pink coming out of the drain holes and lower drive .Now I know there is no water left ....I spend an extra 15 minutes and the cost of AF but I sleep better:joyous:...regards,Bob

 

[Alwhite00]

Re: Winterization Questions

I pull my t stat and run AF through the muffs and then drain it and leave the plugs out. Gives me piece of mind if any low laying spots will had AF in them.

LK

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization Questions

I pull my t stat and run AF through the muffs and then drain it and leave the plugs out. Gives me piece of mind if any low laying spots will had AF in them.

LK

That is the bit I really don't understand .... if you choose not to use AF ... then fine.
But if you choose to use it, why drain something that is designed to prevent both freezing & corrosion ?

 

[Lou C]

Re: Winterization Questions

The whole point of AF, is to leave it in, to keep air out. In order for cast iron to rust, you need oxygen (Fe O2=iron oxide=rust) you pour in the AF (-100 with corrosion inhibitors) and it keeps oxygen away from the cast iron. That's why you prime and paint cast iron, it keeps it from rusting. If you're going to drain the AF, don't bother adding it. And I'd put some gasket sealer on the plugs and put them in for the winter. Why, well the threads in the block can rust when exposed to dampness all winter. Then you can have a hard time re-installing them in the spring.

Honestly it seems to me that there is so much mis information on this topic, if you just read the later Merc manuals, and even my old OMC manual, that is exactly what they tell you to do, drain, backfill with AF. No hocus pocus with sucking up AF, then draining, etc.
You know its a GM cast iron engine, it was designed to run with AF in it, so leaving it in all winter at least reduces corrosion and will make it last longer.

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization Questions

The manual on my Mercruiser 4.3 (2012) states: after section on how to drain the water

"For additional reassurance against freezing and rust, after draining, fill the cooling system with propylene glycol mixed to manufacturers recommendation to protect engine to the lowest temperature to which it will be exposed during freezing temperatures or extended storage"

Seems pretty clear statement .. drainage will prevent freezing damage, but for assurance and to prevent corrosion you need to fill with AF mix ... and NOT drain that mix out.

What is the correct way to 'fill' to ensure all necessary parts are filled with AF mix ..... in other words where do you pour it in ?

 

[Walt T]

Re: Winterization Questions

Tafflad, fill a glass with water a quarter full, then stick it in the freezer. A few hours later go see if it cracked. This is how small pockets of water in a block behave. They freeze and expand in the path of least resistance which is....air.
Just shooting down your argument as that's what dealers use to get folks to pay more for the antifreeze fill. By the way everyone, antifreeze water mix will separate out if left sitting for long periods. That's how you get that "slush" inside a motor.

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization Questions

I really see no valid point in that argument, at no time have I said leave unprotected water in the engine.

 

[BoatDrinksQ5]

Re: Winterization Questions

I guess it would be interesting to see a piece of cast iron sit in my garage over winter....another sitting in a bowl of AF....and another that was only dipped in AF. All side by side after 6 months....

They would all look the same in a damp cold environment with a touch of salt vapor added?

Seems like for 6-7$ and 10minutes... I'm betting on at least the iron dipped in AF would turn out a little better? plus the possibility of a frozen pool of slush in my water pump, thermostat, steering cooler...sounds better then a rock of ice.

 

[captain zac]

Re: Winterization Questions

Most likely I do it wrong but
I drain then run AF thru until I get AF out the exhaust
then take off the Stat and refill

Harry

 

[Slide]

Re: Winterization Questions

IF you go the AF route, at the minimum you need to pop the drains to ensure AF comes out after you fill the block. If the AF didn't make it past the t-stat for whatever reason, then you need to take off the housing and fill until you get pink out of the drains.

I don't like the muff method because of the danger of roasting an impeller, especially with a Bravo setup. Better to do it with an in-line flush kit that goes directly into the water pump.