Winterization Questions

[ricohman]

Re: Winterization Questions

I did a test last night just out of curiosity. I took a jug of 50 below marine/rv antifreeze and put it in the freezer overnight to see if it would handle 0 degree temp at least... Haha! It was slush by morning and almost solid by this afternoon.

Needless to say I went outside and pulled both plugs on my 3.0, and left it to drain and left the plugs out. Don't want that crap in my motor.

You may have something here. I have a few scrap motors lying beside my garage. I may fill one up with that RV anti freeze and see how long it takes to split apart. I bet by the end of December it is cracked. But we can get -30 days in November.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Re: Winterization Questions

One on each side of the block. One at the bottom of each manifold, and maybe one on the power steering oil cooler and (if fitted) the fuel cooler. Also drop the large hose from the water pump at the front of the engine....

Chris.....

I found one on each side of the block today. Great tip to dig some wire in there and clear out the holes btw. On the port side it made another half gallon or so come out. So glad I did that.
I found a plug on each side of the exhaust but they were high up. Water came out but that wasn't enough so I removed the hoses off the bottom of them and let them drain that way too.
The power steering pump had hoses that jointed into what looked like a main hose of sorts from the manifold block so I pulled that hose and let it drain.
Didn't find any sort of fuel cooler in place so nothing pulled there.

I put some fuel stabilizer in, topped up the tank. Ran engine on muffs for 10 or 15 minutes to get oil nice and hot. Fogged motor and then shutdown. Screwed on the Mercruiser oil pump I got and the SOB wouldn't come off the dip stick tube when I was done. The whole end of the dip stick tube spins around with the threaded piece so it won't ever come off. I loosened up the dip stick tube and started pulling it from the block forgetting it goes all the way down to the bottom of the oil pan so you can suck oil out that way. Well damn thing got jammed up in exhaust manifold, I was frustrated and wiggling to hard and now it's bent as well as having a pump fitting stuck on the end. Sucks. So I guess in the spring I'll be pulling the starboard exhaust manifold off the engine for clearance and replacing the dip stick with a new one. So anyhow put fresh oil and filter in, disconnected ignition coil and cranked motor over per manual for 15 seconds and then let rest for 1 minute and repeated 3 times to get fresh oil pumped through out motor.
Oh I also removed the two belts off the front of the motor. Not sure how necessary that was but I read they will fatigue over the winter under tension. Even if that's BS it only took a minute to pull them both and store in the heated garage so whatever lol.

Other than that everything went well. I got all the seats, life jackets and such put inside the house. Tomorrow I'll drain the outdrive and I need to build my big PVC structure to hold up the tarp and keep the snow off

 

[Fun Times]

Re: Winterization Questions

Hi Malcolm, Just for clarification purposes, the way I read your post #82 above is, you went out and drained the engine block first, then added some fuel stabilizer, ran the engine for 10+ minutes, continued on with the engine oil change, got a little frustrated, cranked the engine over for a bit, did a few other things and called it a day.

If so, then it sounds like you refilled the engine block with water when you ran the engine to circulate fuel stabilizer.

I'm sure you meant it did not go exactly in that order, but I would rather say something now vs reading next year you have winter damage to your engine and exhaust.

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization Questions

Maybe you should read all posts in a thread before commenting. That subject has been covered....

The requirement of AF in the newer Mercs is so people can't claim against them when the SPD fails to drain and cracks the block.
Chris......

If a manufacturer states something has to be done, and during warranty period you don't do it ........ that is giving them a total get out clause.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Re: Winterization Questions

Hi Malcolm, Just for clarification purposes, the way I read your post #82 above is, you went out and drained the engine block first, then added some fuel stabilizer, ran the engine for 10+ minutes, continued on with the engine oil change, got a little frustrated, cranked the engine over for a bit, did a few other things and called it a day.

If so, then it sounds like you refilled the engine block with water when you ran the engine to circulate fuel stabilizer.

I'm sure you meant it did not go exactly in that order, but I would rather say something now vs reading next year you have winter damage to your engine and exhaust.

I appreciate the follow up on that. When I look back my post did shift gears on the next paragraph and make it confusing. My actual order was
Add fuel stabilizer and top up tank.
Run for 15 minutes.
Remove spark arrestor and fog motor before shutting down.
Pump out old oil and remove filter.
Realize oil dipstick issue broken with pump attached
Cuss at boat
Put fresh oil in and filter
Drain out water, pulled plugs and hoses
Disconnect ignition coil and crank over to get new oil circulated (with muffs and garden hose on impeller to protect it)
Removed alternator and power steering belts

Still have more stuff to do today but that's the basics of it. So plugs are removed and in a zip log back and hoses are still disconnected. Should be no water in the block.

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization Questions

I appreciate the follow up on that. When I look back my post did shift gears on the next paragraph and make it confusing. My actual order was
Add fuel stabilizer and top up tank.
Run for 15 minutes.
Remove spark arrestor and fog motor before shutting down.
Pump out old oil and remove filter.
Realize oil dipstick issue broken with pump attached
Cuss at boat
Put fresh oil in and filter
Drain out water, pulled plugs and hoses
Disconnect ignition coil and crank over to get new oil circulated (with muffs and garden hose on impeller to protect it)
Removed alternator and power steering belts

Still have more stuff to do today but that's the basics of it. So plugs are removed and in a zip log back and hoses are still disconnected. Should be no water in the block.

wouldn't you be better to change oil earlier in process so new good oil circulated throughout engine before shutting off for winter ?

 

[MalcolmV8]

Re: Winterization Questions

wouldn't you be better to change oil earlier in process so new good oil circulated throughout engine before shutting off for winter ?

I didn't want the engine to actually fire up on the new oil and create any blow by/acids etc. what so ever. That's why I disconnected the ignition coil and cranked it over to circulate the new oil. Might be more than needed but if I'm going to the trouble of putting in fresh oil to protect everything over winter might as well be completely fresh right

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization Questions

OK ... I go different, I get full service done, run it so new oil is every where under pressure ... then fog it off.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Re: Winterization Questions

OK ... I go different, I get full service done, run it so new oil is every where under pressure ... then fog it off.

I'm sure both methods work just as well.

 

[ricohman]

Re: Winterization Questions

I didn't want the engine to actually fire up on the new oil and create any blow by/acids etc. what so ever. That's why I disconnected the ignition coil and cranked it over to circulate the new oil. Might be more than needed but if I'm going to the trouble of putting in fresh oil to protect everything over winter might as well be completely fresh right

I'll keep this thread alive....
If you don't drain the carb, you are sucking fuel into the chambers and washing the walls so to speak.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Re: Winterization Questions

I'll keep this thread alive....
If you don't drain the carb, you are sucking fuel into the chambers and washing the walls so to speak.

Not really. Normally on a car when you go WOT you have to be running quite a bit richer than 9 AF to cause cylinder wash down. That's a lot of fuel. Stoich or optimal AF of gasoline is 14.64 and assuming our carbs are tuned in kinda remotely close we're probably in the 14 ball park. With the throttle closed it's pulling fuel from the low speed or idle jets and barely pulling any at all. At most you're going to have some fuel vapors. No wash down of the fogging oil will happen.

 

[ricohman]

Re: Winterization Questions

You probably have a electric choke on your 91'. If you don't open it up it surley will pull enough fuel in to wash the walls if you crank long enough. Has nothing to do with the mix. But you were probably cranking for only a few seconds anyway. You don't need an open throttle to flood a cold motor, not even close.
Back in the "olde" days, when I was an apprentice, the GM dealer I worked for would have a couple dozen towed in vehicles of all sorts waiting for me on winter days. As I was the low guy my job was to push them inside, remove the plugs and give each chamber a squirt or two of oil. Then spin the engine over, install the plugs and fire them up.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Re: Winterization Questions

You are correct I do have an electric choke and yes I did open it. I should have mentioned that.

 

[Slide]

Re: Winterization Questions

I didn't want the engine to actually fire up on the new oil and create any blow by/acids etc. what so ever. That's why I disconnected the ignition coil and cranked it over to circulate the new oil. Might be more than needed but if I'm going to the trouble of putting in fresh oil to protect everything over winter might as well be completely fresh right

Came here to say this - I don't know the reasoning behind it, just heard multiple recommendations to do it this way - but I have always made the oil change my LAST step, and never crank/fire the motor after the fresh oil has been put in until after the storage period. There is some negative effect to firing it up with your fresh oil before storing it.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Winterization Questions

I did a test last night just out of curiosity. I took a jug of 50 below marine/rv antifreeze and put it in the freezer overnight to see if it would handle 0 degree temp at least... Haha! It was slush by morning and almost solid by this afternoon.

OK apparently there is some misunderstanding on what is going one here. Water is unique in that like most liquids it shrinks as it is cooled but when it hits about 4 C (39 F) it starts to expand as it continues to cool until it freezes, where it expands about 10% as it turns to ice. If confined the expanding ice can create enough pressure to break the container (engine block). The propylene glycol in RV antifreeze acts like most other liquids and continues to shrink as it cools and solidifies (freezes), so if your block is filled with RV antifreeze, even if it does freeze it will do no damage because it does not expand! What happens if it turns to slush, if there is some water in it? Probably not much, because it would still act like a liquid and as ice crystals form and expand the excess will probably flow and be pushed out through the risers, just like any other liquid and the pressure would be relieved. With water, as it cools and expands it will fill all of the space that it can and will also start to flow out of the risers until the relatively narrow passages freeze solid leaving the bulk of the water trapped in the block where it continues to freeze and expand until the pressure cracks the block. So the key to winterizing is to drain the water first, then you can do what you want with antifreeze.

 

[Lou C]

Re: Winterization Questions

If you cranked it over with the muffs connected and water hose on, I'd be concerned that even though the engine did not start, it sucked water into the impeller in your drive and the raw water intake hose running up to the thermo housing. If this water freezes it could cause damage esp if there is a P/S cooler in line with that hose. First I'd put the drive all the way down to help any water that may have gotten in to drain, then, I'd disconnect that hose at the thermo housing and point it down in the bilge and see if any water comes out. Then stick a funnel in it, and pour some no tox -100 af in the hose till it runs out the drive water intakes.

For future reference, here is the best order of operations for winterizing:
Put stabil in gas tank.
Run engine on ear muffs on the water hose till warmed up.
Change motor oil and filter
Run again on water hose make sure no leaks from filter and level of oil is correct.
Now take off flame arrestor and fog engine.
After engine is fogged let it cool off a bit (that water inside will be HOT).
Most important step, remove all drain plugs, ream out all drains (engine block+manifolds), remove big hose from bottom of circ pump, disconnect raw water intake hose at thermo housing and point down in bilge to drain.
Once you are satisfied its all drained put gasket sealer on drain plugs and replace. Then (optional but I do it) manually back fill the block/heads with -100 no tox AF by reconnecting the bottom of the big hose at the circ pump, disconnect the end at the thermo housing and pour in AF till AF comes out the neck of the thermo housing. Re-connect upper end of that hose. Engine is full of AF, no air to support corrosion. Then fill exhaust manifolds by disconnecting the hoses at the thermo housing, fill em till AF runs out the exhaust. Now manifolds are full of AF, keeping out most of the air. Re connect hoses, (manifolds and raw water intake hose) at thermo housing.
Spray engine with anti corrosion spray. Oil pan is most important, they can rust through over time.

This is basically what is listed in both my OMC owners manual and their factory shop manual. No short cuts, it works and I've done it this way for 10 years.

And definitely replace the drain plugs do not leave them out, put some non-hardening gasket sealer (like OMCs or Merc's equivalent) or you can use marine grease if you don't have the sealer. You don't want them to rust in place. Makes next years job easier! The plugs won't rust usually but the threads in the cast iron can.