Winterization Questions

[MalcolmV8]

Re: Winterization Questions

I'm really amazed at the variety of methods on here people are using. At least nobody is reporting cracked blocks or other issues by using their specific method. Unless they're just to embarrassed to admit they goofed

Question on the antifreeze. That stuff is poisonous and also supposed to be disposed of properly (IE recycled at the appropriate place and not just dumped on your lawn or put down the drain). So how does that work? When you pour it in your boat it's going to come out the exhaust and dump all over the lawn? Do you guys use a special non toxic AF?

Also I saw someone asking up above about where to put the AF in? I'm not sure I ever saw a clear answer. The manifold has 6 hoses on it as I recall. 3 from each side of the boat (starboard and port). Which is the correct one to pull and put the fluid in? Like others I'm not going to try and suck it up with the muffs. It's a pain in the butt changing out that impeller when it's ruined.

My plan is to pull the plugs and drain all water. Then disconnect a hose (to be determined) and pour AF in till I see it running out the plugs and then cap them off. Removing water is to prevent freezing and damage to the block. Adding AF is to try and stop the block from corroding from exposure to moisture and air.

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization Questions

This is where logic would show me as wrong approach ... Get hot, drain .... fair enough.
Then replace all plugs ... and fill with AF and leave it full ....... same as a car, you want it in there protecting things ... no use at all if you just rinse it with antifreeze ...

In another tread someone posted this video ...

and this Mercruiser data that clealry states it is a requirement to fill with AF:
MerCruiser Winterization FAQs | Storage & Maintenance MerCruiser FAQs | Mercury Marine

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Winterization Questions

Question on the antifreeze. That stuff is poisonous and also supposed to be disposed of properly (IE recycled at the appropriate place and not just dumped on your lawn or put down the drain). So how does that work? When you pour it in your boat it's going to come out the exhaust and dump all over the lawn? Do you guys use a special non toxic AF?

RV (pink) antifreeze is non-toxic. Read the label, will tell you about the toxicity and corrosion protection.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Winterization Questions

and this Mercruiser data that clealry states it is a requirement to fill with AF:

Ayuh,.... It Clearly states that it's required durin' the Warranty period,....

Mercruiser, these days, Has to state that to overcome the major Draw-backs of their ridiculous single drain point systems, that Don't work as designed,....

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization Questions

My engine is under warranty.

If drain systems don't work (I have no knowledge either way on that) .... then it would seem that filling with AF is a better way forward anyway ?

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization Questions

By the way everyone, antifreeze water mix will separate out if left sitting for long periods. That's how you get that "slush" inside a motor.

If that is the case why do the hundreds of containers of pre-mix antifreeze for sale not 'settle out, if you have evidence of this then can you provide the source for this statement ?

If you think that alcohol mixed with water will settle out .......... then there are millions of people buying bottles of wine & spirits each year that would be surprised by this. (Maybe I need to go shake my bottle of Chateau Margaux 2009)

Propylene glycol is totally miscible in water at up to 60% which would provide it's Lowest eutectic system temperature. (i.e adding more than 60% does not give lower temp protection)

People get confused with the old antifreeze component Ethylene Glycol ... which has been replaced by Propylene glycol.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Winterization Questions

You got your "EG" and your "PG" anti-freeze

They each have their purpose . . . PG has not universally replaced EG.

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization Questions

Agree .... just clarifying that the toxic ver is Ethylene Glycol .... and as people are talking about RV antifreeze that is not Ethylene Glycol based.

I'm in UK ... and Ethylene Glycol is still the most frequently used antifreeze

 

[ricohman]

Re: Winterization Questions

-50 ain't enough. I have seen engines split with only -50 mix inside. People pour in the premixed A/F and have whatever mix inside the motor and they end up with a mix lower than what the bottle says. Then its gets cold and blocks start cracking.
Of course if it doesn't get cold where you live then this isn't a concern.
I leave my new 4.3 drained and empty. Corrosion is no concern. It would take 200 years for the block to corrode where I live. We used to drain the water out of the older tractors every fall. Some of these machines were over 60 years old.

 

[redmen62]

Re: Winterization Questions

I'm still planing on running it on the muffs to operating temp (allowing the tstat to open fully), shutting it down to switch to my feed tank, and running 4-5 gals of -60 PG antifreeze (non-toxic, gotta keep the fish and trees happy). I collect it out back and test with a hydromoter to make sure it's all good for the winter. This also warms the oil up to make changing it nice and easy.

Flushing it through when the tstat is open allows the AF to get in everywhere and get all the water out. I collect all of it out the back and test looking for a reading of 0 F or colder. Taking the reading off all the recycled AF ensures that what's in the engine is rated MUCH lower as all the water that was in the engine is now in my collection tank.

 

[achris]

Re: Winterization Questions

Seems to be a misconception here that a small puddle of water left in the block will freeze and crack the engine... WRONG!!!! :facepalm:

Ask yourself a question.... What is the exact mechanism that freezing water cracks cast iron... A unique property of water is that it expands on cooling. (That's why ice floats BTW).... And it will continue to expand as it freezes, and exert enormous pressure on anything that is attempting to restrain that expansion..... Small puddles of water freezing inside an engine block have plenty of space to expand to, the air spaces above the water. But when the block is full, no place to go....

So, a quart of water left in the block? No big deal....

Now, running the engine and sucking it up with the muffs... You have no idea how much of a really bad idea that is.... Someone has already pointed out that the thermostat will barely open under those conditions.... And to all those who say 'I've always done it that way and never had a problem.'.... Count yourself very lucky.... Unless you FULLY drain the block before you do it.... Emphasis on FULLY.... If the block and manifolds are not COMPLETELY empty before you start suck the AF in, it will either dilute and raise the freezing point, or trap pockets of water that will freeze and because of the AF above it, have nowhere else to go.... Read my previous paragraph ^^^

A.D.F.....

Chris.......

 

[skydiveD30571]

Re: Winterization Questions

Great summary Chris.

Ricohman I was going to say the same thing. People have been draining engines for a very long time. Where are all these engines that are failing because of corrosion since they were left dry? As far as I'm concerned, "corrosion protection" is like saying "get 10mpg more by pouring this in your gas tank!" It's a sell point that apparently works well.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Winterization Questions

I'm still planing on running it on the muffs to operating temp (allowing the tstat to open fully), shutting it down to switch to my feed tank, and running 4-5 gals of -60 PG antifreeze (non-toxic, gotta keep the fish and trees happy). I collect it out back and test with a hydromoter to make sure it's all good for the winter. This also warms the oil up to make changing it nice and easy.

Flushing it through when the tstat is open allows the AF to get in everywhere and get all the water out. I collect all of it out the back and test looking for a reading of 0 F or colder. Taking the reading off all the recycled AF ensures that what's in the engine is rated MUCH lower as all the water that was in the engine is now in my collection tank.

Ayuh,.... That's False thinkin' that causes hundreds of cracked blocks every year,....

What happens when yer cold antifreeze hits the t-stat,..?? it Closes,...
Then ya pump the antifreeze out the manifolds, 'n leave just water in the block,...

If you Insist on usin' antifreeze, the block Still Has to be Drained, Before the antifreeze is introduced,...

 

[ziggy]

Re: Winterization Questions

lots of discussion here.
pretty much the same i've read for years here.

myself, i've come to the conclusion that empty if all water is what is necessary. i used to add pink anti freeze via the tstat. but then someone said have ya ever heard of a block rusting from the inside out. i personally have not. granted i boat in fresh water, not salt water. still, there's a lot of folks here boating in salt water and i've still never read anyones block rusting from the inside out.

so, in the end for me. i make sure all the water is out of my cooling system. manifold, block, water pump, riser (for my old engine). this seems to suffice for the winter lay up where i live at (winter temps here are 0*F +/- 20*F). and whats best is, that it's easy to do. no mess, no taking the thermostat housing off, no anything, other than draining all the water out..... as the saying goes. air don't freeze and if all ya got in your cooling system is air. your good to go. imho.....

good luck to the op with all this wealth of info in this thread.

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization Questions

Where I live 25% would be enough ......... -3 Deg C (26 F) is as cold as it gets
50% covers me to -36 C (-32 F)

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization Questions

. but then someone said have ya ever heard of a block rusting from the inside out.

I removed a radiator from my house heating system and left it empty for 24 months while doing a major building job ........ reinstalled it and it had pin holes rusted through it ........... contacted manufacturer ........ they said once they have been wet they will corrode rapidly if not kept filled.
I know cast iron block is thicker ... but corrosion does take place.

I boat in salt water and always flush with X-Salt after every use - just to stop corrosion .... I know many don't but never had any corrosion problems in decades of boating.

 

[ricohman]

Re: Winterization Questions

I'm still planing on running it on the muffs to operating temp (allowing the tstat to open fully), shutting it down to switch to my feed tank, and running 4-5 gals of -60 PG antifreeze (non-toxic, gotta keep the fish and trees happy). I collect it out back and test with a hydromoter to make sure it's all good for the winter. This also warms the oil up to make changing it nice and easy.

Flushing it through when the tstat is open allows the AF to get in everywhere and get all the water out. I collect all of it out the back and test looking for a reading of 0 F or colder. Taking the reading off all the recycled AF ensures that what's in the engine is rated MUCH lower as all the water that was in the engine is now in my collection tank.

Don't you think the thermotstat will close as soon as that mix hits it? Better drain the block first before doing this. By that time the thermostat will be closed anyway.

 

[SMG]

Re: Winterization Questions

New to winterizing mercrusier I/O also. Why does it say this in the Mercrusier manual/

For additional assurance against freezing and rust, remove the thermostat cover and
thermostat. Fill the engine seawater cooling system with a mixture of antifreeze and tap
water mixed to manufacturer?s recommendation to protect engine to the lowest temperature
to which it will be exposed during cold weather or extended storage. Using a new
gasket, reinstall thermostat and cover. Tighten cover bolts to 30 lb-ft (41 Nm).

 

[achris]

Re: Winterization Questions

...and this Mercruiser data that clealry states it is a requirement to fill with AF:
MerCruiser Winterization FAQs | Storage & Maintenance MerCruiser FAQs | Mercury Marine

Ayuh,.... It Clearly states that it's required durin' the Warranty period,....

Mercruiser, these days, Has to state that to overcome the major Draw-backs of their ridiculous single drain point systems, that Don't work as designed,....

New to winterizing mercrusier I/O also. Why does it say this in the Mercrusier manual/

For additional assurance against freezing and rust, remove the thermostat cover and
thermostat. Fill the engine seawater cooling system with a mixture of antifreeze and tap
water mixed to manufacturer’s recommendation to protect engine to the lowest temperature
to which it will be exposed during cold weather or extended storage. Using a new
gasket, reinstall thermostat and cover. Tighten cover bolts to 30 lb-ft (41 Nm).

Maybe you should read all posts in a thread before commenting. That subject has been covered....

The requirement of AF in the newer Mercs is so people can't claim against them when the SPD fails to drain and cracks the block.

As for corrosion in salt water engine blocks... I have a salt water engine, I flush just with fresh water after use (no snake oil :facepalm... I have reason to pull my engine out and do an ongoing repair about every year or so. One of the items I have to remove is the water pump. I get a great look inside the cooling jacket.... I was pleasantly surprised the last time I did the job (about 3 months ago) with the condition of the water passages. 7 years old, almost 400 hours and very little evidence of corrosion... FWIW...

As for that stupid SPD system... I need to flip my engine over when I do this repair, so I like all the water out of the block. Every time I pull the hoses off the side of the block, they are clogged, both side and after only 1 year... We need to re-stress the point. Clear the drain holes and make sure they flow all the water out...

Chris......

 

[BoatDrinksQ5]

Re: Winterization Questions

achris, thanks for the first hand note regarding interior conditions at 7yr.

yeah the SPD doesn't seem to be to be the best route.... my 5point seems about right...heck would like if they had 8

definitely worth noting that block holds gallons of water (4?) and that if you are pulling plugs and only get a bit of water for a few seconds out of most drains.... likely not getting your 4gallons out...

I find one trick (that gets me over it mentally)...is after i know i drained.... drive boat/trailer around town for a few miles to help maybe jostle water out that might be pocketed , clogged, or airlocked somewhere. Makes me sleep better at night on those first few sub-zero nights.