WOT RPM's

vranasaurus

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
105
Re: WOT RPM's

The motor needed rebuild because it was run in salt water not flushed and the cooling passages on the starboard cylinder head clogged causing #1 to suffer some svere damage.<br /><br />If the timing were off by a degree or two as in retarded could that be causing this problem?
 

willamettejeff

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
550
Re: WOT RPM's

One thing I haven't seen asked in all of this is whether your 2 props are the same manufacturer, model and diameter. There is much more to a prop than just its pitch and all of it effects the rpm a given motor will turn it at. For instance, I had a standard uncupped aluminum 13 1/4 X 17 propeller which would run at 6000 rpms and now have a cupped aluminum 13 3/4 X 15 one that also maxes out at around 6000 rpms. The cupped 13 1/4 X 17 I also have will only get to 5500 or so. BTW, my outboard is a 1978 70hp Johnson.
 

ddbyrd3

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
369
Re: WOT RPM's

Dave you have a good observation, and VRAN, that was the exact same thing that cause my motor to blow, plugged water passages under the head cover not allowing the combustion chamber to cool,, end result, blown piston...<br /><br />Anyway, I am working on solving my own problem, but in my case of not reaching max RPM is when I got my motor back from the builder it never performed like it did prior to it blowing up. Before she went, 6k+ @ 50+ MPH. that was in 01.<br /><br />Now, 4800RPM 34MPH. I have replaced everything, litteraly everything, electrical on the motor and still no change..<br /><br />Whats my point, my motor position did not change before or after the rebuild. It is definatly the motor or gauges...<br /><br />That was my only mistake, I changed all of the gauges during the rebuild process, and I dont have the old ones to fall back on... So in my case speed and RPM are off.<br /><br />VRAN, dont be like me and assume your gauges are correct, you will save countless $$$$ and time if you verify your tach, than go from there, especially since you didnt have a tach installed prior to the rebuild..
 

vranasaurus

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
105
Re: WOT RPM's

the 15 pitch is cupped the seventeen is not I believe. But I should be able to get more RPM's with the 15 regardless.
 

djzyla1980

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
640
Re: WOT RPM's

Vran.... I'm not that far from you... and to the best of my knowledge theres no salt water.. Is this motor the motor that was on it when the boat was bought.... or have you changed motors?
 

ob15

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
514
Re: WOT RPM's

If I'm correct, a cupped prop should give the same rpm as an uncupped prop with 2" more pitch. Some places that sell propos suggest a 2" decrease in pitch when going from non cupped to cupped. This could be the reason why the rpm's are the same.
 

willamettejeff

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
550
Re: WOT RPM's

Originally posted by vranasaurus:<br /> the 15 pitch is cupped the seventeen is not I believe. But I should be able to get more RPM's with the 15 regardless.
Maybe not necessariy, as when ordering a cupped prop to replace a non-cupped one, suppliers usually recommend going 2 pitches lower. Been my experience also. Just a thought. BTW, are both your props the same diameter? Seems like they go up a 1/2" in diameter on a 15 pitch prop further reducing max rpm.
 

willamettejeff

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
550
Re: WOT RPM's

Dave, that's exactly what I was getting at, but you actually stated. :) In any event and despite every thing else, vran still doesn't know if his tach is reading correctly. I cross checked my new Faria one with my older Teleflex and the Faria reads at least 200 - 300 rpms low. The Teleflex tach had been previously verified against my boat's original OMC tach. Verified this also with a slip calculator, which gave me impossibly low and even negative slip numbers using the readings from the Faria tach at GPS verified speeds.
 

vranasaurus

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
105
Re: WOT RPM's

The slip numbers using my tach range from 15-20%with both props.
 

ob15

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
514
Re: WOT RPM's

We must have been typing at the same time. I agree about the tach. It's almost worth it to get a TinyTach in order to verify rpm's. I'm gald I have one.
 

Cricket Too

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
May 14, 2003
Messages
1,732
Re: WOT RPM's

vran, that's what williamettejeff is saying. You are getting the same RPM from a 17" uncupped as you are from a 15" cupped. You can't rely on just the pitch number to base your expected RPM on, you have to take into account the rest of the measurement as well as if it's cupped or non-cupped, like Dave F. is saying above. The engine doesn't know what number is on it's shaft, it just turns whatever is there and the prop itself performs to the way it was designed, you are basically trying the same performing props on this motor.<br /><br />I'm actually working on the same problem with my '76 115 right now, Teleflex tach and 5400 RPM with a 13 1/4 X 15 uncupped aluminum prop no matter if I'm alone with a 1/4 full tank or with 4 guys and a full tank, kind of strang after reading this.<br /><br />It seems like you already understand this since you are trying to get your WOT higher, but maybe some people don't quite get it. The best way to understand WOT is by equating it to your car's transmission. If you had a tranny on a boat you could adjust your pitch and gearing, but you don't so you can't. <br />If you are driving a 5 speed car, do you go 20mph in 5th gear? No, you'd be lugging the thing to death. You'd be in 2nd gear. So if you drove around all day at 20mph you would be fine in 2nd gear, but if you wanted go faster you would have to change the gearing to adjust the load on the engine, same as if you wanted to go slower. If you wanted to go 2mph, you would have to go down to 1st, but you can control that in a car. You can't in a boat, so the reason you prop for WOT is not so you can go WOT the whole day every where you go, it's just so that you have the engine geared properly as to let it perform properly at any RPM you feel like going.<br /><br />With a properly propped and setup engine you could go 2000 RPM all day if you felt like it and the engine would be geared properly and not lugged, at the same time if you wanted to go 6000 or 4500 RPM all day you could because the engine is propped and setup right to handle any RPM.<br /><br />Just the way I understand it at least. I'm starting to lean towards my tach also on this problem, but am gonna work with the setup a little more before blaming that. It never occured to me that there would be a rev limiter set at 5400, I thought they were all in the 6300 range. But I gotta tell you, it's gonna bother me if I can't get this WOT up to at least 5800, and like you not for speed but for engine health. Let us know what happens, Mike.
 

vranasaurus

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
105
Re: WOT RPM's

Well I ordered a new tach. I'll see what this one says.<br /><br />Also I did at one point use an uncupped aluminum fifteen and had the same limit.
 

willamettejeff

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
550
Re: WOT RPM's

Cricket, your either down a cylinder or 2 or that tach of yours incredibly inaccurate. Your 115 should be able to turn that prop a whole lot faster. My 70hp would no doubt turn it somewhere around 6400 rpms given what it can turn an uncupped 17 pitch at. Might be comparing apples and oranges though as we're talking engine rpms, not propeller rpms. Gear ratios are probably different between are engines. Mines 12:29.
 

willamettejeff

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
550
Re: WOT RPM's

Originally posted by vranasaurus:<br /> Also I did at one point use an uncupped aluminum fifteen and had the same limit.
Well that makes this a whole different animal as you should have been able to spin that prop about 300 - 400 rpms faster. That is, of course, if the diameter of the uncupped prop is very close to your others. Maybe there is a problem with your tach as I believe if you were hitting a rev limiter you would here it as a change in the sound from the engine. Not sure about that though.
 

kevin88

Seaman
Joined
Jul 18, 2005
Messages
64
Re: WOT RPM's

Vran, <br />Have you tried running this motor on High test 92/93 Octane fuel? <br />I have recently learned that on my motor there are optional Low Compression head gaskets for use with the Low Octane fuel. <br />I am suggesting that you may be experiencing a pre-ignition problem with your motor since the rebuild because of the higher compression. Pre-ignition problems could limit your motors ability to reach to high RPM's under load. Please see my recent post (Standard or Low Octane (Low Compression) Head Gaskets?) for a description on my problems...
 

vranasaurus

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
105
Re: WOT RPM's

I am taking it out this weekend with my new tach and I'll try some premium gas. At this point I'll try anything.
 

ddbyrd3

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
369
Re: WOT RPM's

VRAN, what tach did you install this time????<br /><br />I have a teleflex vector that I believe is reading wrong as well, I am having my motor hooked to the dyno tomorrow..<br /><br />Post your results, I am curious, chasing the same issue you are...
 

vranasaurus

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
105
Re: WOT RPM's

I bought a tiny tach and I am going to use it to verify my teleflex.
 

ob15

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
514
Re: WOT RPM's

You won't be dissapointed with the tinytach. They work great. Good luck.
 

vranasaurus

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
105
Re: WOT RPM's

Dave,<br /><br />The model i got is a 2C which needs to be hooked up to a cylinder that fires once per revolution.<br /><br />Does each cylinder on my V-4 fire once per revolution?
 
Top