Loud Sound Only In Water - Replacing Intermediate Bearings

[EricKit]

EDIT: I changed the title because I've realized I need to change out the intermediate bearings and pull the engine, so I'm looking for help on that. The main information on that starts on page 2.

So it's making this sound in the water, in idle, and not on the ear muffs, but it didn't start making this sound unti I put it into gear in the water. I then brought it home, and ran it on the muffs again to see if it made the sound, and it still does but much quieter, and the sounds is getting better. The sound is coming from where the outdrive connects to the engine maybe. I can hear it from where the engine is pretty good near the back side and in the outdrive where it goes into the boat area. More RPM's makes it louder.

I'm wondering if this sound is the engine knocking from too low of a grade of fuel with the added force of water against the prop when I put it into gear, but I dont' see why that would matter.

I'm confused because it sounded fine on the muffs, fine in the water in neutral, then awful once put into the gear, then awful in netural in the water, then just kind of bad on the muffs once we got home.. getting better as time went on.

 

[Don S]

Re: Loud sound only in water

Re: Loud sound only in water

Verify you have your spark plug wires in the proper firing order. You would be surprised how well a Ford will run out of the water with a couple wires crossed.

 

[ErieRon]

Re: Loud sound only in water

Re: Loud sound only in water

Have you had the drive off recently for inspection/maintenance? Sounds like u-joints, upper gears, gimbal bearing, coupler (maybe). You're probably going to have to pull the drive and check it all out. It doesn't sound like an octane issue from where you describe the noise coming from.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Loud sound only in water

Re: Loud sound only in water

I'm wondering if this sound is the engine knocking from too low of a grade of fuel with the added force of water against the prop when I put it into gear,

Nope,... That ain't it,... No way...

Donno enough about your drive to say what it Might be,...
But,..
Don't run it til you Fix it,... It won't get Better by itself...
I'd start by checking the drive's oil levels,+ for metal...

 

[captmello]

Re: Loud sound only in water

Re: Loud sound only in water

Sounds to me like you fried your new upper gears when you put it in gear. Since the upper had been put together incorrectly. I'd pull the upper gear assembly and inspect it. Dang it! We told you.

Are you familiar with removing the upper yet?

Seems logical unless you had the upper reworked since your last thread?

 

[EricKit]

Re: Loud sound only in water

Re: Loud sound only in water

Verify you have your spark plug wires in the proper firing order. You would be surprised how well a Ford will run out of the water with a couple wires crossed.

I will def check that out.

Sounds to me like you fried your new upper gears when you put it in gear. Since the upper had been put together incorrectly. I'd pull the upper gear assembly and inspect it. Dang it! We told you.

Are you familiar with removing the upper yet?

Seems logical unless you had the upper reworked since your last thread?

I'm not too familiar with it, I will check that out. I thought it coudln't be gears because it sounds just as bad in neutral as it does in forward or reverse now. Forward and reverse both still lock in opposite directions like they should and the prop spins well with no sounds when I'm just turning it in forward or reverse or netural. Any ideas? It ran great in forward/reverse at first out of the water, and the sound is going away (but I know that doesn't mean much). Thanks

 

[Don S]

Re: Loud sound only in water

Re: Loud sound only in water

Remove the upper gear box and run the engine. That will tell the story if it's the engine or drive.
When the engine is running, all three gears in the upper are turning at the engine rpm. The shift cone locking into the upper or lower gear is how it changes from forward to reverse. It just locks onto the vertical shaft and turns it.

 

[EricKit]

Re: Loud sound only in water

Re: Loud sound only in water

Remove the upper gear box and run the engine. That will tell the story if it's the engine or drive.
When the engine is running, all three gears in the upper are turning at the engine rpm. The shift cone locking into the upper or lower gear is how it changes from forward to reverse. It just locks onto the vertical shaft and turns it.

Thank you so much, that's great information. I'll run the test and let you know what I find. Do I need to drain the oil to remove the upper gear box? It may say in my shop manual, I'll read that later.

 

[captmello]

Re: Loud sound only in water

Re: Loud sound only in water

This is from the adults only Volvo Info Page. Regarding the removal of your upper gear assembly.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=309095

It takes a while the first time but is pretty staight forward. You will still need to run water to the engine at all times.

Please ask if you have any questions.

While you have the upper off, there are other things to check as well. Ujoints and the intermediate shaft play.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[EricKit]

Re: Loud sound only in water

Re: Loud sound only in water

This is from the adults only Volvo Info Page. Regarding the removal of your upper gear assembly.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=309095

It takes a while the first time but is pretty staight forward. You will still need to run water to the engine at all times.

Please ask if you have any questions.

While you have the upper off, there are other things to check as well. Ujoints and the intermediate shaft play.

Let us know how it goes.

Thanks for that link. That will be very helpful with the shop manual. Please let me know what you mean by running wter to the engine at all times (Do you mean while I'm running the engine? With ears?) Thanks!

What should I look for on the u-joints?

Also I'm pretty sure he didn't reshimm the gears, when the forward gear was replaced. What does this mean to do that and what is the chance of something bad happening?

 

[captmello]

Re: Loud sound only in water

Re: Loud sound only in water

Thanks for that link. That will be very helpful with the shop manual. Please let me know what you mean by running wter to the engine at all times (Do you mean while I'm running the engine? With ears?) Thanks!

What should I look for on the u-joints?

Yes, run the engine on muffs even with the upper gear box off.

Re: ujoints, once the upper is off you can check them for extra play, see if they appear worn.

Just get the upper off first. See what you find. Let us know.

If you have any questions along the way, just ask.

 

[Don S]

Re: Loud sound only in water

Re: Loud sound only in water

Also I'm pretty sure he didn't reshimm the gears, when the forward gear was replaced. What does this mean to do that and what is the chance of something bad happening?

Wait a minute here, did he only replace ONE gear ? The FORWARD Gear ??????? If that is the case, it will never last. The gears are machined as matched sets Forward, upper, and lower gear. They CAN NOT be interchanged.

If he did replace the whole set of gears and didn't reshim, the chances are very good the gears will be destroyed witnin your first couple of runs.

 

[EricKit]

Re: Loud sound only in water

Re: Loud sound only in water

Wait a minute here, did he only replace ONE gear ? The FORWARD Gear ??????? If that is the case, it will never last. The gears are machined as matched sets Forward, upper, and lower gear. They CAN NOT be interchanged.

If he did replace the whole set of gears and didn't reshim, the chances are very good the gears will be destroyed witnin your first couple of runs.

Okay, I called him to find out what he did. My forward gear was bad. I got an entire upper unit shipped to me. He used everything from the shipped unit except for the upper linkage. That was mine. So everything was from the same unit (Not just a gear added). That should be good right?

 

[captmello]

Re: Loud sound only in water

Re: Loud sound only in water

Okay, I called him to find out what he did. My forward gear was bad. I got an entire upper unit shipped to me. He used everything from the shipped unit except for the upper linkage. That was mine. So everything was from the same unit (Not just a gear added). That should be good right?

What did he say about reshimming?

 

[EricKit]

Re: Loud sound only in water

Re: Loud sound only in water

What did he say about reshimming?

He did not, can you explain what this means? The entire upper unit is pretty much from the same unit and was installed on my boat. What would reshimming do? Thank you! I think I understand the consequences, but not what it actually does.]

The upper unit that was installed into my boat was also with a Ford 302 Engine

 

[Don S]

Re: Loud sound only in water

Re: Loud sound only in water

There are shims between the bearing on the upper gear box lower bearing and the intermediate housing. They need to have a .002" to .004" preload on the bearing. Too much and you may not get the seal to hold, too little and there will be too muchs slop in the gears and bearings.
You need to realize, that these are precision pieces of equipment that cost thousands of dollars and require some knowledge and skill to work on. Not some anvil you beat on with a hammer to make work.

 

[EricKit]

Re: Loud sound only in water

Re: Loud sound only in water

There are shims between the bearing on the upper gear box lower bearing and the intermediate housing. They need to have a .002" to .004" preload on the bearing. Too much and you may not get the seal to hold, too little and there will be too muchs slop in the gears and bearings.
You need to realize, that these are precision pieces of equipment that cost thousands of dollars and require some knowledge and skill to work on. Not some anvil you beat on with a hammer to make work.

Thank you. That's interesting to know.

 

[captmello]

Re: Loud sound only in water

Re: Loud sound only in water

Pull the upper gear box and see if you find.

You could try to run the engine to see if the sound is still there.

You'll just have to take it step by step.

 

[Don S]

Re: Loud sound only in water

Re: Loud sound only in water

Thank you. That's interesting to know.

I really don't think you quite understand.
To many shims, and you will damage things.
To few shims, and you will damge things.

That is what I am trying to get you to understand.

 

[EricKit]

Re: Loud sound only in water

Re: Loud sound only in water

I really don't think you quite understand.
To many shims, and you will damage things.
To few shims, and you will damge things.

That is what I am trying to get you to understand.

I understand the purpose of shimming now, I know I need a qualified mechanic to do it, I think I remember you saying it takes about 4 hours with the right very expensive tools, and I know that if it's not done properly I'll damage things.

I was just saying it's interesting how much precision is needed