1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

[craigweaver]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

Hey, you're making great progress. Following along but you're in great hands with Woody and the others.

 

[esimmons92]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

here is a pic of the 1708 that would not wet out completely

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

Yep, I'd sent that pic to the mfg and see what they say. If you're certain that it did not happen in your shop then they should stand behind their product and give you some kind of credit.

 

[esimmons92]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

Yep, I'd sent that pic to the mfg and see what they say. If you're certain that it did not happen in your shop then they should stand behind their product and give you some kind of credit.

I bought from US composites, which seems to comes highly recommended around here...

will i still need to grind out and redo it? I can not feel any flaws, but they can definitely be seen

 

[esimmons92]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

Ok I really need some help, if you have been following, you know I had some issues wetting out my 1708

so after calling US composites they said in a nut shell;
it was too cold when I mixed the resin (it was 60 degrees)
or, I was not mixing the mekp long enough (i mixed for about 1 min) they recommended 2 minunets

So today I went at it again.
It was in the low 70s my resin was kicking off in about 25 min mixed at 1 %
I stirred my resin for 2+ minutes and it still would not wet out completely

I was at the point where I had to lay down as much as possible because of my time line. Well I got started today thinking the problem was me (which us composites told me, but now I am not so sure.)

I had previously rolled resin over my stringers to seal the wood

Today :
I wiped the surface with acetone
cut my 1708
wet the back of the 1708
wet the stringer
laid the 1708 out and began to wet it out. :
I quickly we out as much as I can very quickly
once that had a bit to absorb I went back over it all with more resin. I even let it pool up and it still wouldn't wet completely out.!

I only did the left stringer and part of the right one.

I know this picture is not very close up, I will try and get a better picture tomorrow.

I honestly have no idea what I am doing wrong.
Please Help!!!!

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

I'd suggest you get another piece of 1708 somewhere & repeat everything like today to check if a different batch of 1708 behaves similarly.

Sorry I don't have a suggestion for where to get a small piece of 1708 over the long holiday weekend..........

How long have you had the resin & MEKP?

How long has it been since you 1st opened them, or left them open while working, exposing them to oxygen? Resin & MEKP have a shelf life, even unopened. So just over time, the styrene may have permeated out.... That's the compound that breaks the binders in the 1708/CSM down, correct? I certainly don't know how past it's prime resin & MEKP perform either...

I'm not a chemist, and I'm not 100% on any of that ^^^

Since it's generally an all over failure to properly wet-out, I'd think it's a problem w/ the fiberglass & or the mixed resin if you followed US Comps recommendations today.

 

[esimmons92]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

I'd suggest you get another piece of 1708 somewhere & repeat everything like today to check if a different batch of 1708 behaves similarly.

Sorry I don't have a suggestion for where to get a small piece of 1708 over the long holiday weekend..........

How long have you had the resin & MEKP?

How long has it been since you 1st opened them, or left them open while working, exposing them to oxygen? Resin & MEKP have a shelf life, even unopened. So just over time, the styrene may have permeated out.... That's the compound that breaks the binders in the 1708/CSM down, correct? I certainly don't know how past it's prime resin & MEKP perform either...

I'm not a chemist, and I'm not 100% on any of that ^^^

Since it's generally an all over failure to properly wet-out, I'd think it's a problem w/ the fiberglass & or the mixed resin if you followed US Comps recommendations today.

I have 1 roll of 6 inch wide 1708 tape
1 roll of 12 inch wide 1708 tape
(both rolls did the same thing)



I ordered the mekp and all of the fiberglass on 1-17-13
I ordered the resin in mid febuary.
I have made sure neither the resin or mekp froze and did not open them until I used them on the 1st of March.

I did not have any problems wetting out the chop strand mat ... however....
The chopped strand mat (according too us composites) has a starch in it that draws the resin in it where the biaxal does not.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

I guess more accurately I should have said the CSM on the back of the 1708 has the binders. Sorry......

How long ago was the CSM done w/ out problems? Might try it again, just as a check of the resin & MEKP. Doesn't need to be much as a test samples.

I still agree w/ WOG that it looks like a fiberglass problem, more then a resin or operator error problem. Press US Comp w/ an email to customer service w/ a pix of that cross hatching.

You made sure the resin, MEKP, fiberglass materials & the boat hull were all above 70degrees today, though right? It all needs to be above 60 thru cure.

 

[esimmons92]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

I guess more accurately I should have said the CSM on the back of the 1708 has the binders. Sorry......

How long ago was the CSM done w/ out problems? Might try it again, just as a check of the resin & MEKP. Doesn't need to be much as a test samples.

I still agree w/ WOG that it looks like a fiberglass problem, more then a resin or operator error problem. Press US Comp w/ an email to customer service w/ a pix of that cross hatching.

You made sure the resin, MEKP, fiberglass materials & the boat hull were all above 70degrees today, though right? It all needs to be above 60 thru cure.

In this picture I wet out a piece of chop strand mat and it all went down fine, then I laid the 1708 over it and well you can see what happened. It would not wet out completely.

It was even the same batch or resin.

I might try and pick up some new mekp tomorrow and do a test sample.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

Hopefully the new MEKP does the trick. I really don't know what poly resin & MEKP's shelf life is, but certainly sounds like a possibility....

Someone else posted a problem w/ MEKP, and got a new bottle, no more problems... Don't remember if it wasn't wetting out the glass though, sorry.........

 

[esimmons92]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

I tried different Mekp, it improved ever so slightly, but not enough to say that is the problem.

Any one else have a suggestion?

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

Hey esimmons92,

I have been lurking in the background and following along...

You have been doing an amazing job so far...

I have to concur with the previous ideas that you may be the recipient of a batch of what I have heard called around the marina I occasionally help out in as "Solid Glass" stranding...the best explanation I have been given is that when they manufacture 'glass cloths, the strands are actually supposed to be kind of hollow and permeable, that is what allows the resin to get in there and turn everything clear and makes the structure solid...

In your case, it looks like one of the threads in the weave is this mysterious "solid glass strand"...since it looks like you have a good bond and the structural integrity doesn't seem compromised, you should be just fine leaving it as is...we have in boats that I have worked on...if you need to add another layer on top, you can lightly scuff the surface, wipe with Acetone and keep on going...

If the "white" is all the way through, that would indicate moisture, either from sweat drops or actual water that has gotten into the fabric and has not completely dried out...if the area is larger than an inch or so, we usually have to remove the offending area and re-glass...otherwise if it is just a small quarter sized spot, we usually don't 'sweat it':facepalm:

Keep in mind that all of this information is hearsay from guys who I have worked with that work on boats for a living...nothing scientific about it, just their experiences as related to me...

If the problem persists and it is annoying you to no end, try and get the material you have exchanged for some from a different lot...

Good luck and best regards,
GT1M

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

Wash the area thats NOT taking the resin with some Acetone and let it dry. That should remove any contaminates. Then try and apply some resin to it. If it still won't wet out then the Glass is bad. I'd send pics to USC and see about a refund.

 

[esimmons92]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

on another note...

When I am glassing on the outside of the boat, (repairing hull, tabbing top of the transom etc.) Do I need to sand all the way through the gel coat to bare fiberglass, or will it be fine if I just rough the gel coat up with 80 grit sand paper and just glass on top of the roughed up gel coat?

 

[esimmons92]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

When I am glassing on the outside of the boat, (repairing hull, tabbing top of the transom etc.) Do I need to sand all the way through the gel coat to bare fiberglass, or will it be fine if I just rough the gel coat up with 80 grit sand paper and just glass on top of the roughed up gel coat?

any thoughts?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

So let me get this straight. Frisco said that the Glass you have that would NOT wet out was OK???
Grind the Gelcoat down to Fresh glass.

 

[esimmons92]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

So let me get this straight. Frisco said that the Glass you have that would NOT wet out was OK???
Grind the Gelcoat down to Fresh glass.

removed*

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

I'll have to PM him on that one. If the fibers won't wet out, IT'S a problem. That's my opinion.

 

[esimmons92]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

I'll have to PM him on that one. If the fibers won't wet out, IT'S a problem. That's my opinion.

thanks

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: 1973 Chrysler Fin & Fun Rebuild

The tiny pictures I saw in my PM did not look really bad at all. Seeing the larger pictures on the thread (still small on my MAC) it looks like something is repelling the resin, but it also looks like 85% or more is wet out. I have never claimed to be the end all be all of fiberglass, but I do have a fair amount of experience. I have run into those issues before... sanded a little to get rid of the defect, and plugged on.

The right thing to do is call the person that sold it to you.