1976 johnson 35 surging

[fireman57]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

I would say that the points being reset should cure it. The surging might have been caused by uneven spark fed to the coils. The reason we went to fuel right away is because usually it is a fuel problem, uneven flow due to stuck float, crap in jets, gasket letting air in etc... I believe you will be estatic when you run it. Didn't realize that you had ever had the flywheel off for the points to have been moved or did they just move themselves from wear?

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Hey fireman,<br /> BAD NEWS .I just got back from a quick test run and it's still not right. The motor starts better, idles better,but when you push the throttle forward,it doesn't get more than 60% performance.I guess it's hard to explain it to someone on the other side of the planet , but the closest I can get is to say that a split in the fuel line would cause similar symptoms.When you power down,it's as though something is stopping you from reaching max.rpm...It responds to the throttle initially,but when you push a bit harder to get the boat on the plane, It's as though that extra power is being by-passed through some kind of pressure relief mechanism.Put the "split in the hose " with the last sentence and you should get an idea... The motor will labour and drop in revs and end up in a jerky,up & down power supply to the extent that people on the shore can hear the problem.<br /> How did you expect me to get the flywheel off if you wouldn't tell me who I loaned the puller to ? . No mate,I'm not a mechanical genius.I have only 3 things...A manual,An idea,And my American friends. All of the tasks I am doing are on the edge of my capabilities.I am aware of my limits,but the more I do,the better I get.<br /> Back to the issue,I will still go ahead with the checks J Reeves suggested, and see where we end up.<br /> Will post the results in a couple of days.Thanx guys ross

 

[fireman57]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Next time you run it pump the primer bulb when it starts surging. If it doesn't run better then try pulling one plug wire at a time with insulated pliers. Better yet have a mate do it. When you pul one it will drop in rpms but hopefully still smooth. When you pull the next one it will drop and run rough. If you have a timing light you can try to use it to see if the spark is consistent. Still sounds like it could be a spark problem possibly. If cleaning the high speed jet doesn't do it then try this. Sorry it hasn't worked out yet.

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Hey fireman,<br /> Squeezing the primer bulb does nothing in terms of the problem.I've also done the J.Reeves fuel pump test and it did not leak.<br /> I'll soon head out front and do some more of Joe's tests and post the results.Thanx for sharing my pain.<br /> The funny thing is that although it still displays the problem, it actually sound like it is running more efficiently. It starts better,idles better and sounds crisper when running. So all these peripheral repairs,replacements and adjustments are helping the bigger picture. Can't go fishin' tomorrow anyway, 'cause my favourite spot is going to be over-run by 100mph ski boat races. I need every one of my 35 horses at their peak to mix it with those guys !!<br /> Thanx again......

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Joe Reeves,<br /> Assuming you have read up to this point..... I am re-reading your original posting to work directly from [our printer is in for service,so I'm doing it the old fashioned write it down way ]. <br /> You say if there is not a "sudden instant change " in the revs,the it must be fuel; then to solely work on fuel related remedies.<br /> So let's just make sure that both your and my definition of " sudden instant change " are the same. <br /> Let me describe what happens... You are sitting in an open runabout , aluminium about 14 1/2 feet long;so it it lightweight and responsive ,not heavy . You are travelling at say 8mph and are just staying on the plane. You have got the throttle at a position that would normally have you comfortably planing at about 12mph.When you now put the lever forward,it should skip away effortlessly to about 22mph. It is now that the problem really kicks in. As a passenger [ without the wheel to hang onto ] ,when the throttle is applied the up & down in the revs is enough to lightly rock you backwards/forwards in your seat. I guess you may call it sudden. When the lever is at a point that should have you doing say,15mph,you are actually going about 9 mph ,the motor is revving say, 1400 rpm less than what it should actually be; and the revs will suddenly go up or down by anything from 200 to 700 rpm.people on the shore,100 yds away,can hear it.<br /> I hope you enjoyed your trip on the "fishin' mission " and I hope it puts you closer to the problem . <br /> Please post your thoughts on the effect of this info.<br /> Please also bear in mind that all measurements are hand made....no tacho or speedo, but I think I'm pretty close.<br /> Thankyou, and if you want me,I'll be in the carby again.

 

[Crappie_Fan]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Have you changed the spark plugs yet? My 25hp will do the whole surging bit when I try to rev it out, if it has a fouled plug. It will idle fine until you get ready to get into it. If I was you I would go find the champion plugs and replace both spark plugs. Should be a quick easy fix, if its a fouled plug.<br /><br />Good Luck

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Thanks for the tip crappie fan, a fella would love an easy fix like that. If it works,I'll just tell she who must be obeyed that the ignition coils,points,condensers,gasket kits,fuel tank&line and the five buck spark plugs all come in the one kit. Of course you can't buy em separately dear. Otherwise why would I have got all that other stuff ?<br /> If it wasn't 1am,I'd go and get the champions now !<br /> I will post tomorrow. Thanx...

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

As I live in sunny Australia [biggish island in the other hemisphere ] the champion plugs that seem to be available are UL81C,not UL81J.<br /> I have seen the UL81C and UL81J listed as correct for my motor..35 RL 76 S since fitted with electric start. Do we assume they are inter-changeable ?.<br /> It is Sunday,so all the parts shops are not open. J Reeves said to get the ul81j plugs,so that is what I'll be looking for tomorrow. If these can be swapped,please let me know..

 

[Crappie_Fan]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Not sure what the difference is, I cant seem to find a UL81J on Champions website. I did put your motor in the sparkplug vehicle type thing and it came up with the UL81C, Champions website says the UL81C has a 1/2" reach, if the plugs you have in there now, have a 1/2" reach then you could try them. Just make sure the new plugs are not too long.<br /><br />Good Luck

 

[Harker]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Is your throttle cable/linkage adjusted and fastened correctly? Just a thought.

 

[G DANE]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Rosco - these low-tension ignitions can be finicky. When you try to gain RPM's under load, does it sound a bit like its 4stroking or coughing ?? If it does and RPM's are fluctatin you have a cylinder firing intermediate. Change both condensers, and I'l bet the problem is solved. I fought a problem like that on a 25 HP 1973 ( same ignition type as 1976 35HP ) and one condenser was the problem. I have a complete stator for the 1976 35HP with a new set of points/condensers in part pile, but dont know what mail to Aussie land is ?? Should I try to investigate ?

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Thanx guys , one at a time......<br /> Crappie_fan Thanx for tuning in, The C plug supersedes the J plug according to a reputable parts shop. As a wise man pointed me to the J plugs,I might investigate further.<br /> Harker welcome to the madhouse, I will check the linkages.Though we did the carby recently,the carby outer bits were the same as when it was running fine. But I'll check it out . <br /> Thanx for your input,hang in and soon we'll have the answer.<br /> G Dane Welcome back ! So you share my pain ! I hope you have followed this thread and had a bit of a laugh. When the points came up as a suspect,I bought a new pair in a kit that comes with the condensers .My original points looked immaculate,so I didn't change them. Wrong move,rosco.I will change 'em and the condensers while I'm down there.<br /> And you reckon that's it ??<br /> My Scandinavian friend ,If you nail it with something that I've already shelled out for , then I'll tell Mary to tell Frederik to name the kid " G " . <br /> Give me a day or so ,then check the thread again. Thanx again<br /> But now I'll put in the

 

[fireman57]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Hey buddy, again make sure that you torque the flywheel to specs and that your flywheel key has no slop whatsoever.

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Hey fireman, how ya doin?<br /> I did up the flywheel to 105 ,all is nice and snug.<br /> Went out and bought the champion UL81C plugs,remembering that J Reeves told me to get the UL81J [unavailable and superseded by the C plug ] and the bloody thing would not start.It cranked all right,just wouldnt light up.So to prove that I have gone nuts,put the NGK B7HS back in ....and it ran perfectly. Any help on this would be great.<br /> Back to the flywheel,the woody key stays on the spline when you take the wheel off. So I just left it in place and positioned the wheel on it.Didn't really try to get it off,was just happy it didn't drop into a crevice of no return.<br /> The Dane is convinced the condensers are the culprits. Will instal new ones on Wednesday. I'm buggered why the champion plugs didn't work.<br /> Crappy_fan, you were right about the half-inch reach. The champion UL81C and the NGK B7HS are both that. As you have read here,only the NGK work. The champion link was very interesting ,thanks. It listed the J plug as having a "cut back ground electrode.And includes a modified gap ." . The C plug as being "copper plus design " , Which sounds pretty much a consolation compared to the tricked-up J one !!<br /> J Reeves, as you included this plug on your list ,Maybe you can shed some light. Any help always appreciated. I am still to do the carby & H S jet yet. I would love to find out why it won't fire with that plug in it. It didn't even pop.It sounded like trying to start it without the fuel hose connected.I put the NGK's back in, Started 1st go,and idled fine.<br /> I respect and accept your opinion.The difference between the C & J plug must be pretty vast, 'cause I tried to start with these for 3 min. in total,and they did not fire at all.I gapped them to 30thou.<br /> Your original posting clearly says no other plug will work .Right again.I'd love to hear from you ,please.

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

fireman et al, one more thing...<br /> Took the plug leads off 1x1.with the top lead off,it still ran pretty well. When I did the bottom one it basically died within 3 seconds. Is this normal, You said in a posting it should run rough,not die out. Timing,perhaps ?

 

[fireman57]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

IF you took the top lead off and it didn't make much of a difference then that cylinder is not firing or is firing intermittently. Has to be bad spark to that cylinder. The surging is caused by it firing and then not firing. Could be a bad condenser, bad coil, bad plug wire, etc........ Try swapping the coils and see if the problem follows. If it still does not make much of a difference when you pull the wires then it is the coil. If the problem stays on that cylinder then it is probably something that leads up to the coil that is not letting it get the juice it needs.<br />The champion plugs are very curious to me as these engines were literally designed around those plugs.

 

[Crappie_Fan]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Before you start the swaping of coils ans such, just swap the spark plugs and see if the problem moves with the sparkplug. I'm still going with one of your plugs is fouled . As for the Champion plugs not working at all, is mystical to me. I would go ahead and buy 2 new NGK for the meantime and replace them.<br /><br />Good Luck

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Hey fireman and Crappie _fan,<br /> Thanx for following up.Will do the test you suggested fireman. The coils are brand new,but not foolproof, but I still hold hope for the installation of the new points & condensers to sort this out.<br /> As for the plugs,I must 'fess up that I gapped them the wrong way.Yes,I made the gap bigger by levering slightly on the electrode.While I am an idiot,I'm sure I'm not the first idiot to do this, But would it cause both plugs to simply not work? . As penance,I'm happy to buy another pair and gap them right.<br /> The NGK's were pressure cleaned and spotless before the last trial run,and made no difference.So that may rule out a fouled plug as the cause of the problem .<br /> Thanx again guys we must be getting close....

 

[Crappie_Fan]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

I would never depend on a plug that had been cleaned, as cheap as plugs are replace both of them. I have had plugs that looked nearly brand new out of the box, that were fouled. You need to eliminate the easy fixes first, then if it still runs like crap, move to the more troublesome fixes. Its gonna make you mad if you replace the plugs and it runs good, knowing that you have replaced everything else on the motor first. <br /><br />Good Luck

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Crappie_fan,<br /> I'll change the plugs,But first I'd like to find out why the champions didn't work. <br /> The people who pointed to that plug know their stuff. If I can't get an answer soon,I'll just put in a new set of NGK's and see what happens. <br /> It would be both pleasant & embarrassing if it was just a pair of plugs. But I can justify all that other expense and time by calling all the other goodies "preventative maintenance ". Either way,It's been good fun.<br /> Thanx for keeping track...