1976 johnson 35 surging

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Hey fireman & crappie_fan,<br /> A well deserved kick in the xxx .Looking back,I have been guilty of going off in every tangent [and still no result ].<br /> The NGK's finally arrived today. I put them in just now,but I have'nt taken it on the water yet , but in the interest of giving you guys every bit of info. possible...<br /> Since changing the points & condensers,I've used it once,and started it maybe 4 different times.The top plug was coated in a dry,black carbon like coating over the whole firing end. The bottom plug had an even coffee coloured finish to it. Remember,they used to both be totally wet fouled before.<br /> Also,I did firemans coil-swap [sorry c-fan ],and it still cut out when I took the bottom plug lead off.It only ran rougher,but still ran when I took off the top lead.<br /> I also did the spark jump test,and the spark I got from both leads was nowhere near the "strong blue flash ".It did not "snap "<br /> In fact,after hearing all these descriptions,the spark I got from both leads was pretty weak.<br /> I hope this lot gives you a clearer idea of what we are looking at.Also remember that I put in the new NGK plugs before all these tests.<br /> In short crappie_fan ,there 'aint no bolt of lightning at all. But don't you go anywhere ,I like you fiesty people.Shows conviction.And God knows I need persistence here!<br /> So there it is.I hope this new info leads you closer to what is bustin' my things. Thanx again,

 

[papa_Lazerous]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

blimey this is a post and a half! just took me 10 minutes to read it.<br /><br />So a re-cap on this is, you have removed HT leads whilst running one at a time and the top cylinder seems to be causing a problem. and the plug is also oiled. Well if you have good compression and the points are set correctly and you have a new condensor, and you have tried swapping over and running on the other cylinders coil and changed plugs I would say you almost definately have a break in a wire on the low tension side of the circuit for that cylinder. I would unplug the both HT coils from the wires coming from under the flywheel. and then remove the wires connected to your points ( to stop current backfeeding during test) and then using a multimeter check the resistance across the wires for both cylinders and compare. Also do this with the throttle lever set at idle and full as this will rotate the plate and possible show resistance changing due to a broken wire. Even if the wires appear good they may be damaged inside.

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Thanks for dropping in John_Evinrude,<br /> Judging by your surname,you must know your stuff...But, Taking off the top lead only makes it run a little worse ,but it still runs.the top plug has a dry,black carbon-like coating on it.<br /> Taking off the bottom lead will kill the motor. The bottom plug is the best I have seen it.It's an even grey/brown colour.<br /> When I changed the ign.coils ,the engine still died when I took the bottom lead off.<br /> So I think it is the bottom cylinder that is causing the drama,so I'll do your test ,concentrating on the wires to the bottom cyl.<br /> Then there is the problem of the weak,girly spark.....<br /> Thanx for your idea,will post the results

 

[steviecops]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

If the engine cuts out when you remove the bottom lead, the problem is with the top cylinder.

 

[papa_Lazerous]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

lol rosco, dont think I am mocking you here but you need to consider some logic.<br /><br />if it is running and you remove the top HT lead that means it cant be firing on the top cylinder anymore, and if you remove the bottom lead it means the bottom cylinder cant be firing anymore, got me so far?<br /><br />so if you remove the bottom one and it kills the engine then that cylinder is doing all the work, and therefore running well!<br /><br />But when you rmove the top HT lead it hardly alters the engines performance it means that this cylinder is the troublesome one!<br /><br />so test both, so you have a comparison. But if there are differences then its the TOP one that is faulty

 

[Crappie_Fan]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Very good info on the spark situation, how far is the spark jumping now? Definitely do the test that John_Evinrude mentioned that will help narrow down the area where the spark is being lost. We'll get it figured out soon, theres only so many things that could cause these conditions.<br />When the engine died, after pulling the bottom plug, did you have the new spark plugs in it?<br />Good Luck

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Yes guys,when we go applying logic,then everything points to the top cylinder being the culprit.I might have been standing on my head,and didn't put much thought into it.<br /> The more I think it out,the harder it hits me in the face.Couldn't see the forest for the trees.<br /> Anyhoo,to get an accurate grasp on your test,I should put the meter across the wires at the points, and the wires at the connector to the ignition coils.To isolate the wiring between armature plate and the top ignition coil ?<br /> Hey,crappie_fan...<br /> Yes,the new NGK's were in before the spark test.As far as the spark info being good.... It jumped about 3/8-7/16th ,BUT it was not strong ,bright ,or snappy.It was more like Mr. Burns than Duffman.<br /> But I agree that it is a good indicator of what might be wrong.<br /> Thanx to everyone again ,I will post the results....

 

[fireman57]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Top cylinder definitely the problem. Like they said concentrate on any wiring to the top cylinder. Since you swapped the coils and the top cylinder was stil dead then you can eliminate the coils. So the problem has to be ahead of the coil. We'll get this donk going soon. So far your problem has been tougher than a left turn downtown. Eventually we'll get this to where Bob's your uncle.

 

[papa_Lazerous]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

funny thing is I am sure there are allot of people in this thread that could have it going or diagnose it within half hour if it was in front of us

 

[steviecops]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

I think we should run a book on what we think it will be ;o) I'm putting my money on it being the wiring between the stator and the ignition coil. Probably the connector ;o)

 

[papa_Lazerous]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

my money is on the wiring too, seeing how I brought it up for him to check the resistence of the wires lol

 

[fireman57]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Steviecops and John E, any ideas on why the champions would not fire at all?

 

[G DANE]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Things to check if one cylinder is affected:<br /><br />Ignition coil ( done, right ? )<br />Points and condensers ( done, Right ? )<br />Wiring from stator to coil ( )<br />Ground on coil ( )<br />Reeds, actually beginning to look a little like it ( )<br />Spark plug ( done, right ? )<br />Spark plug lead and boot ( )<br /><br />Carb is common, leave that out<br />Ignition drive coil is common, rarely fails on those, leave that out, unless spark generally is weak ( test in dark or shadow, 3/8 gap )<br /><br />False air drawing in from somewhere, spray start aid gas around carb, reed and intake gaskets while its running and see if it picks up.<br />Is it oily and messy somewhere, i. exa. from under flywheel, thats sign og a leak, oil seeping out. Please post back.

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Hey fireman,stevie,dane,john,crappie, and all others,<br /> Just got home from work 3 hrs.early so I can test this wiring.I've only got a garden variety multimeter,but a mate has got a mickey mouse one that tests the insulation as well.<br /> Dane,so far I've done:Coil,points,condensers,coil ground,spark plug/leads and boot. I am doing the wiring in a minute. I don't even want to know about reeds. Let's hope the wiring is the culprit.<br /> I did the spark test in daylight,and it seemed pretty weak on both.I will do it in the dark [about 3hrs time ] and post the results.<br /> No real signs of oil or exhaust leaks anywhere. But I still get oil around the plug seat,which I hope will go away with the problem.<br /> Wish me well,my international friends, And exactly what odds did we frame for the wiring ?? I'd like ten on that please !!<br /> Come back in a couple of hours....

 

[steviecops]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Hey Fireman. I've no idea why the Champions wouldn't fire. It is very unlikely that both new plugs were duff ones, so I'd say it was due to another problem. Why it then fired with the NGK's is a mystery. Maybe the charge coil or the wiring from it is going south? It'll be interesting to see the result of the test on the wiring.

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Hi all,<br /> Let's just go 3 steps back. When we put the condensers in,I wasn't standing next to the boys when they put the flywheel back on.<br /> When I took it off today, one condenser had it's lead neatly sheared off at the connector. More fool me for not checking,but the connector was at TDC instead of tucked away.<br /> Remember at the last test run [after new points & condensers ] I said it ran perfectly for about 30 seconds ,Then started mucking up real bad ????<br /> How long do you reckon a flywheel would take to slice clean thru that lead ??<br /> Me thinks about 30 seconds !!!!!<br /> So , G Dane ,you still might get the prize yet . I didn't get to do the wiring test as my multimeter is mucking up . Will either just take it for a run,or check the wires on the weekend . But I think that the condenser being cut off has a lot to do with it now .<br /> Just thinking back to that short time it ran good before the lead got sliced [which was probably only 10 or 15 seconds !! ]. If it was going that good with the new condensers,I'm happy with the chance that the re-connection will do the job ..<br /> Hey fireman and crappie_fan ,maybe THAT is why the Champions didn't fire ???<br /> Anyway ,will post results soon <br /> Thanx again..

 

[steviecops]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

I think you just found your problem Rosco! ;o)

 

[papa_Lazerous]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

I'm sat here laughing away, I think cut wire on the condensor is definately the problem in hand, and is wiring of a sort like suggested. I am surprised that it was firing at all on that cylinder

 

[Crappie_Fan]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Man that is excellent news, in a way now you just need to fix condenser and try it out. That could be the reason the champions didnt fire, but I would still think the bottom cylinder would have fired though . At least you found something real solid to go off of, let us know how it runs.<br /><br />Good Luck

 

[fireman57]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Rosco, glad you stuck with it. Proud of you. Let everybody know. G'Day. When it is running right take the powers that be out for a good ride with that donk. She'll be bloody proud of you too.