1976 johnson 35 surging

[G DANE]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

rosco 11 I am looking foreward to hear the result of new points and condensers. The one I battled with a whole summer, had a bad new condenser ( not likely to happen for you ) The intermittant running upper was what I expected and pointed out for you ( not to brag too much ) When you set the points, remember its inches, in metric points should be set at 0,50 mm. Isnt Australia metric ?? what do I know. Good luck.

 

[fireman57]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

G Dane brag all you want to, you've earned it. Australia is metric. I hope this cures his problem as he has been battling it for a long time. I'm sure that he is also tired of listening to the "powers that be". I still wonder (like everyone else) why the Champions wouldn't even fire.

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

G Dane & Fireman,<br /> Yes Australia is metric, But I still know what 20 thou. is. Gee,I hope the Official Government Metricity Department isn't monitoring this,otherwise I'm in trouble !!<br /> I changed the points & condensers this arvo...The points were pitted ,it makes me wonder how the hell they worked at all when they were gapped so poorly before.<br /> Anyway, I'll take the plugs back to the parts shop to be tested,or if not,I think I can sweet talk them into changing them for a new pair.<br /> Fireman,the only thing you've said wrong is that I'm sick of hearing from the powers that be. Sadistically,I enjoy it. If anything,you guys should be sick of hearing from me.Have you seen how long my postings are ?? My wife said I talk too much and don't listen to her. At least I think that's what she said,I was on the phone !<br /> As I said before,I don't think anyones opinion is less than anothers.The only way this is going to be fixed is finding someone who had the same problem.Sooner or later,one answer is going to be the right one for me.<br /> I hope the confidence of the Dane comes through for me.I should be able to slip her into the water tomorrow for a quick test.<br /> And as they say in the classics,I'll keep you posted. Thanx again,hope tomorrow brings good news !!

 

[Crappie_Fan]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

The only way this is going to be fixed is finding someone who had the same problem.

That is the reason I've been strongly suggesting to just replace with new spark plugs and try it. My 25 did the exact thing (running slow, then you will get a periodic jerk, or burst of power, then it will go slow, etc..)it messed with my mind something severe and ended up taking it to the shop and the first thing he did was put two new plugs in before I even unhooked the trailer. Backed it into his pit and ran like a brand new engine. I was so embarassed, but many people fail to replace the simple and easyest things first and cause themselves more headache than required. G Dane definitly knows what he's talking about, he has helped me many a times. A good start anytime you start having engine trouble is to make sure you have fresh gas, fresh set of plugs and use a good charged battery. Then work your way from there, testing and replacing one thing at a time. Hope you get it running, I know how frustrating it can be.<br /><br />Good Luck

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Hi all,<br /> Back to square one. took it out today,and It's still doing it. AARGGHH. If anything,it is doing it worse.The variation is sharper,much more distinct. The eternal optimist in me hopes all the replace/repairs I'm doing is actually improving the performance of the motor,so exaggerating the effect of the problem when it occurs.Get it ??<br /> Crappie_fan,I ordered the new plugs on the way back from the river. I will put them in and try again.Can anyone tell me the right gap please ? .<br /> Once I've done this,next is the hi speed jet and minor float adjustment, then ??. What is the exact role of the driver coil ?<br /> G Dane,I thought you had it.When I first took off,it ran like brand new for about 30secs ,then started with the up & down business.<br /> I'll change the plugs and try again. Thanx Guys <br /> Rosco

 

[G DANE]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Sorry to hear, I thought we had it too. The one i really had a hard time with was my brotherinlaws, you dont know how many times we were close to unscrew it from boat and drop it in the water. Now he put more that 150 hours on troublefree happy boating hours on it since. There is a couple of things that comes to my mind. Some of these actually had problems with wires from stator to ignition coil, that broke where they leave stator plate. Next time you have it iddling, try to carefully wiggle a bit with the wires. Look out for the Flywheel, this is a dangerous test. Will it jump back and run on both ? What happens is these wires change position when the armature plate turns as you throttle up. When you had the carb off, did you look into the intake to see if all reed leaves was in place and intact ?? A chipped reed can couse it to miss at a cylinder, but mostly on low rpm. When you assembled carb, did you remember the little round centergasket around the tube from highspeed jet to venturi ?? Leaving that out causes high-speed problems too. Did you clean the high-speed jet ?? Leave the reeds as the last option.

 

[G DANE]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Oh - I forgot the basics - did you ever do a spark test ?? Put a nail in a spark plug boot and hold it with a plier in a cloth, 5/16 from cylinder head. Make someone cranck it. Spark must be able to jump to ground with a clear strong blue snap. Both sparks should jums same gap. Start with that.

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Hey G Dane,<br /> Strangely enough, I just did a search on 35hp Johnsons on this site ,and saw your,and firemans early postings. Someone there suggestad changing the wiring to the coil.It will be done.<br /> When we did the carby,we made sure to replace bits as we removed them.But I'll check it when we go back to the HS jet.<br /> Still have to do a basic spark test.<br /> Today when testing it,I didn't want to go to the trouble of unscrewing it;I reckon a good kick to it's ***** should get it making glug glug sounds.<br /> Thanx for keeping track,check in a day or so .....

 

[G DANE]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Dont change wires to the coils if both sparks are fine, remove both plugwires, rig up your gap and observe spark while someone else crancks and moves throttle all the way up to WOT. ( No spark plug booths on plugs of coarse ) The gasket I am referring to is positioned around the center of carb, between bowl and body, size of a coin, not familiar with AUD enough to say which coin.

 

[steviecops]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Hi Rosco<br />I've been following this thread and it's becoming addictive! I've just been back to read it from the beginning and you don't mention fresh fuel. Is the fuel fresh? Or did you pour the old fuel into the new tank?<br /><br />Also, when you replaced the coils, did you replace the HT leads and plug boots too?<br /><br />Is there any excessive play in the stator plate, ie, can you wobble it side to side/up and down?<br /><br />Good luck<br />Steve

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Hey Dane & stevie cops,<br /> Dane, for that gasket,just tell me a rough size...I'll work it out.<br /> As far as revving to W.O.T, I've been told not to rev it too hard with just the muffs on. When I do the test,I just get someone to turn the key while I hold the plug wire off,yeah??<br /> Steviecops,I am pleased to see your interest in this madhouse. Yes the fuel is fresh,and the coils came already rigged with leads & boots. I will check the stator for play.All suggestions gratefully accepted,thanx for your input.<br /> I feel a bit important now,getting postings from Denmark , England and America.<br /> Am still trying to work out why the Champion plugs did not work.Have ordered a new pair of them from another supplier [ different stock ] ,and also a pair of NGK's ,so I know at least one pair will work.<br /> Does anyone agree with my assertion that the problem sounds worse now that I've done the work to it ? IE;the motor is running more efficiently now ,just that it still has the problem ? <br /> Anyway,it's past my bedtime here,so I'll check you guys later..

 

[G DANE]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

rosco 11<br /> The motor should not be running when you do the spark test, only crancking by starter motor. Reason for advancing trottle to WOT is to detect wheather one of the wires may be broken internally and loose connection when stator plate turns to open trottle fully. NEVER rev beyond 1500 RPMS on muffs, may cause lots of other problems.<br />The possible missing gasket is round with a centerhole and seals around the center of carb bowl against carb body where the gas from high speed jet passes up to venturi. If that gasket is missing, motor will start drawing fuel directly from bowl, not restricted from high speed jet, at higher RPMS, causing it to run extremely rich. Looses around 30 - 40 % og top speed. Spark test first.

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Hi Dane,<br /> If that gasket is about 7/16 to 1/2 inch diameter [from memory ] ,reasonably thick with an odd shaped cut out instead of a cicle,then it is in place .If not,I'll find out soon.<br /> Also,steviecops mentioned the stator plate moving side to side.Now ,I don't know every bit on the motor yet,but what I'd call the bottom of the armature plate [ which would be close to the stator ]does have some play in it. With firm index finger pressure,you can rotate it 1/2" around it's axis.<br /> Is that normal ?<br /> What are the ramifications ??<br /> How do you fix it ???<br /> It doesn't have any up/down movement ,just the lateral play.<br /> Hey fireman , do you have any thoughts on these new revelations ? <br /> Either way,drop in & say G'day .<br /> Thanx for the interest and advice Guys ,I'd love a whole bunch of new tests to do next weekend .<br /> Have as much fun as you can with a new working week ahead ,thanx again

 

[Bearcamp]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Here's a thought. Did you check your fuel for moisture? It's possible it's getting moisture and every time this hits the cylinders to fire, it's creates a miss or loss of power. But it'll keep running cause there's enough fuel and so less water. Water and gas will not mix. Is the throttle going to full open? Open the throttle and check it to see if it'll move any more.

 

[Bearcamp]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Oh yeah.........did you check it for vac leaks? Like around the carburetor, head gasket, or exhaust cover gasket? Spray around with like WD-40 and see if the engine increases in rpm. If it does, you possibly have a vac leak. Just be careful you don't spray around where it could cause a fire.

 

[G DANE]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

rosco 11<br /><br />Stator plate should rotate free, there should be a spring at the arm connecting the throttle shaft, upright on port side of block to lever at armature plate, if its missing, thats could be the problem.

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Welcome Bearcamp,<br /> The fuel should'nt have any moisture,but I'll check it.It is a new poly. tank and hose,etc.<br />The only way I can see moisture getting in is thru the air intake on the fuel cap.Apart from pouring water into it,of course !!<br /> When you say to open the throttle,I assume you mean to push the control lever forward ,then see if the armature moves further ? If not,please point out what I need to do.Thanks.<br /> As far as the vac leak,there is no sign of leak from any gasket around the carby,etc. But I'll do the WD40 squirt and see.<br /> Good to see some new input towards this problem.Thanx to everybody ...

 

[Crappie_Fan]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Ok I cant take it anymore, why is no one else jumping on the fouled plug theory? We have already established that he is only getting spark on one cylinder, and since everything has been replaced on this moter EXCEPT a new set of SPARK PLUGS . Why not stop replacing crap and moving around to different areas of the engine tinkering and piddling trying to find something so much more complicated than a fouled plug. I know you said your ordering a new set of plugs, so I will give you that, but stop adding to the whole equation by messing with other stuff before you finish with the first part of the equation. Now that I done venting about this I hope you get those plugs and try them first before you do anything else. I would just use a new set of the NGK's you have now, untill you can find a set of champions that are for your engine. If they last only long enough for you to prove wether it is bad plug or not it would be worth it to eliminate it from the equation. Everything on that motor can be in mint condition, but if the bolt of lighting isn't coming out of that plug, it will never run right.<br /><br />Good Luck

 

[ross patti]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

Hey Dane,<br /> I am pretty sure that spring is in place [next to the solenoid,yeah?? ]

 

[fireman57]

Re: 1976 johnson 35 surging

G'day rosco. Still can't understand why the Champions would not even fire. Crappie Fan I understand your frustration too. We've been working on this problem for well over a month, probably two. I am assuming rosco that you put your new NGKs in and have the same problem.