2-strokes legal indefinitely?

[po1]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

As more and more enviromental groups get impowered, they'll have their way with tighter regulations on our lakes. Just look at what the automoblie industries have gone threw over the last 40 years. That's why when the time came to buy a new outboard I went with a four stroke, just in case.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

There have been no regulations promulgated to date which specify any engine technologies, only performance. There is zero reason to believe that will change.

 

[QC]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Jim,

That's frankly not true ^^^^^^

Whether you refer to on-highway, or on-lake, I am not sure why you would contend that when I have posted/pasted pending regulations that absolutely define a technology (carbureted 2 stroke). I happen to know of many examples of on-highway regulations that define technologies, other on-lake regs as well. Examples include carpool lane waivers, refuse collection technologies, utility regulations, technologies that receive grants . . . If you want links to examples, I can provide them, they are endless. In fact the entire concept of Best Available Control Technology (BACT) is technology based and is used in 100s if not 1000s of regulations.

Kevin

 

[ebry710]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Injected two strokes are just as clean as four stroke and and the Etec can be used in Lake Tahoe. Old two stroke are being phase out and are being banned in some lakes. Their time will come.

 

[cougar1985]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

In my world, the guys going with E-tecs on repowers are mostly those concerned about the additional weight of the 4 stroke on the back. My builder and a lot of others generally recommend not hanging the heavier 4 strokes on transoms designed for the 2 stroke motors.

My builder bolts nothing but Yammi 4 strokes on the back but advised me to go with a DFI 2 stroke or I had to move my fuel tank forward 12? to counter act the additional weight on the transom.

I like the E-Tec but I?m getting nothing but great reports from the guys running the 4 stroke Yamaha. Several guys I know have over 2K hours on them and they?re still running like watches.

May just end up moving the tank forward and hanging a Yammi on the back. It would probably improve my resale value having a "stock" motor on the back.

hey dingbat,i was out the other day for a nice cruise and seen a fairly large boat being towed by a much smaller glass runabout.went to make sure the little guy could handle the tow,lo and behold the little guy is 90 johnson circa 80,s towing a 225 hp 4stroke yamaha that decided it didnt want to be alive anymore!point is anything mechanical has the ability to self destruct for any number of reasons and yamaha is no different than anybody else.personally im very interested in the nissan direct injected motors but would concider a etec if we actually get another dealer in the area.those that ive talked to that own etec,s love them.cant think of the award that etec got from either calf or epa but they were the only outboard ever to be awarded such a award so id say they got something going for them.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Jim,

That's frankly not true ^^^^^^

Whether you refer to on-highway, or on-lake, I am not sure why you would contend that when I have posted/pasted pending regulations that absolutely define a technology (carbureted 2 stroke). I happen to know of many examples of on-highway regulations that define technologies, other on-lake regs as well. Examples include carpool lane waivers, refuse collection technologies, utility regulations, technologies that receive grants . . . If you want links to examples, I can provide them, they are endless. In fact the entire concept of Best Available Control Technology (BACT) is technology based and is used in 100s if not 1000s of regulations.

Kevin

I was talking EPA rehgulations ... show an explicit federal EPA regulation that specifies an prohibited engine technology and I'll gladly agree. Don't think it exists.

 

[QC]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Roger, and I think you are right with that qualifier in place. But EPA is only one agency among many that can have a huge impact, the local Air Districts in CA are VERY powerful . . . I wish what you said was true with all of these agencies . . .

 

[dingbat]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

hey dingbat,i was out the other day for a nice cruise and seen a fairly large boat being towed by a much smaller glass runabout.went to make sure the little guy could handle the tow,lo and behold the little guy is 90 johnson circa 80,s towing a 225 hp 4stroke yamaha that decided it didnt want to be alive anymore!point is anything mechanical has the ability to self destruct for any number of reasons and yamaha is no different than anybody else.personally im very interested in the nissan direct injected motors but would concider a etec if we actually get another dealer in the area.those that ive talked to that own etec,s love them.cant think of the award that etec got from either calf or epa but they were the only outboard ever to be awarded such a award so id say they got something going for them.

Well, The E-tec is $4K more than the Yammi and the closet E-Tec dealer to me is a 2 hour drive as opposed to a 15 minute drive. Who would you pick based on that crieria?

Suggest you read the criteria for the awards. You have to apply for them if that tells you anything.

 

[cougar1985]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Well, The E-tec is $4K more than the Yammi and the closet E-Tec dealer to me is a 2 hour drive as opposed to a 15 minute drive. Who would you pick based on that crieria?

Suggest you read the criteria for the awards. You have to apply for them if that tells you anything.

ok ,first awards,they got it the others dont period.do you know for a fact yamaha didnt apply ?im not trying to pick on yamaha specifically im more against the mad rush to forced 4 stroke tech.my brothers camp neighbors went out and bought 25hp 4 stoke motors for their boats ,they all also traded back to 2 stroke as they said they were fat slugs.personally money never enters into it for me when i choose a motor,but if your worried about service i understand the yamaha looks like a better deal.seeing as how i drove 14 hours for my new boat 2 hours would be a breeze for me,lol.im still convinced for me the nissan tdli direct injected motor will be the cats bum and at least up here in no mans land ive never heard a peep about restrictions atall.i sort of understand california as its population equals or exceeds my entire countrys.i know up here a couple of lakes were having a hard time with pollution,you know what it was ?the camps or cottages as some city slickers call them were the problem not the motors on the lakes,phosphates etc,etc.i think the old 2 stokes as we know them(carb or fuel injected)will die out on their own as people will not want to chase down parts etc.what will be left will be direct injected high tech 2 strokes and 4 strokes .i wonder if anybody will ever make a clean burn deisel outboard? i think my 52 year old johnson is a pretty good testament to the reliability of 2 strokes and it gets lots of usage.to show you im not totally against 4 strokes theres a homelite bearcat that id love to put on the back of my boat if i could get it.

 

[Tacklewasher]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

An old, fuel leaking, smoking belching 2 strokes will get looks and comments from their fellow boaters at the dock.

I might begin to pay attention when 'fellow boaters at the dock' start chipping in on payments for a new motor. Until then I have to deal with what I have, and the blue-bloods will just have to deal with it, too ...

Sorry, it hasn't been a good day in Carolina Country ...

As time goes on, I think the peer pressure to move to 4 strokes (or clean 2 strokes) will work just as well as any policy the gov't can come up with. We will start having a harder time getting parts for older motors and anyone repowering is going to want newer technology.

I'm still running a 2 stroke 115 Evin but have replaced my kicker with a mid 80's 4 stroke Honda and run an electric on my smaller boat.

I doubt I will replace the main motor but for the little I run it, I feel okay about it. When I move to a new boat (couple of years down the road) it will be a 4 stroke. Probably a Yammy based on what I can get serviced locally.

Seen this debate on the local fishing boards and the pressure to move to 4 stroke is pretty strong on them.

I doubt we will see a cash-for-clunkers type program and, with a few sensitive exceptions, I doubt the old motors will be banned outright, but they are going to die (sorry JB, but it will happen) and be replaced.

 

[fredted1]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

AAAhhhhh...... I would beg to differ with you - cordially of course. I was there too, and saw it, as a flight mechanic, from the cockpit of a B727-200 as we flew in a load of containment booms for the spill. We were at 35,000 feet in severe clear with unlimited vis and it was so massive that it was beyond vocal description. Huge. Nobody cleaned that up in 5 years, never mind 5 days. The water was black almost all the way to the horizon......

 

[whirlypig]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

PECHEUX hit the nail on the head. I have been boating since the early seventies. First boat had a 1959 Elgin outboard that literally shined all over with oil sheen. In the 80's I put 100 to 1 Amsoil 2 cycle oil in it. (100% synthetic) Engine designed to run 20:1. Shine and smoke disappeared, engine ran smoother. Brand new Ranger boat with 150HP Merc, smoked up lake Mead. My Elgin, cranked up, no smoke. Ranger Pilot asked if It was a 4 stroke. Told him about oil, later (two days) same Ranger Pilot, same motor, no smoke. Still run Amsoil 100:1 synthetic in 65 HP Merc, no smoke, no fouling, no wear on engine, no oil slick.

Most oil I've ever seen get into water emitted from bottom end seal leaks, Inboard, Outboard, doesn't matter. If we clean up all of our motors with synthetics, we have done what is necessary for our environment. Amsoil also has had a biodegradable 2 cycle oil, by the way. I know it's biodegradable because it won't last many years on the shelf, in the bottle, use it or lose it!! Synthetics are three times more efficient as lubricants than Petroleum oils. Look for the tried and true brands, however!! (Synthetics have been used as additives for Petroleum Oils for decades, to improve their performance)

 

[rspar]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

I'd have no problem with them forcing a cleaner oil additive and even stopping production of 2 strokes. But it's unfair to ban the use of motors in the market already. All these older boats are going to end up in land fills.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Wrong. It took exactly 5 days to clean up the Valdez disaster. The media made it look like a virtual nuclear winter of oil, but that was not the case. And yes, I was there . . . .

You clearly don't have the faintest clue of what you say.

There are still, (yes that is in 2009), pools of oil below the formerly pristine sands/rocks in Prince William Sound.

As another poster said: the herring runs are still way below the 1989 levels.

Get a grip. JR

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Wrong again. Good lord, where do you people get your information??

The entire ecosystem of that area was within 90% of it's previous self within a year.

You get yer facts from the terlet?

My brother's kelp pounding fishery is still not functional 20 years later.

Get a clue n' hit the books. Ya must be one of those idiots Exxon paid ta cite phony science. JR

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Roger, and I think you are right with that qualifier in place. But EPA is only one agency among many that can have a huge impact, the local Air Districts in CA are VERY powerful . . . I wish what you said was true with all of these agencies . . .

Last time I checked QC; California was bankrupt and payin' the beaurocrats with IOU's!

Ya really like the Gubmint to corntrol each and every little thing do ya? The results are stunnin' if ya have a brain cell that still functions.

Hmmmmmmm.......... I guess you are in a bidness that makes money when Nanny Gubmint forces "reforms", so yer cheerin' makes some logical sense fer yer own pocketbook.

Gubmint requlations have made all engines heavier which requires more fuel to push the heavier boats.

Makes as much sense as requirin' alcohol in the fuel which make engines run worse n' is less efficient so more fuel is cornsumed. N' of course yer food costs more too!!! Sheesh.

POWER TO THE GUBMINT I SAY!!! JR

 

[rolmops]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Murky,good to see a sign of life from the libertarian folk hero with a weak spot for old towers of power.
It warms my heart to read of your commitment to our environment I'm with you all the way.
I do believe that our old iron seahorses will eventually be replaced.But not by any heavy fuel guzzling 4stroke.That really is just more of the same.
The future will be electrical which is quiet and clean,you just wait and see.
Honestly,wouldn't you love to zip along with only the sound of wind and water in your ears?
Can you imagine trolling with the wind in your back but without the exhaust fumes in your nose?
I would wax and shine my old iron seahorses and go electric,heck I would rip the engines out and replace them with an electric motor.I can see it now.Here comes a 1957 formerly 35 horse Johnny which is now soundless,no longer loud or smelly and as cream on the cake is now 50 ponies.
I can't wait.

 

[sho3boater]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Electric outboard? It may be a long time before China innovates a battery that good....and light.

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Electric outboard? It may be a long time before China innovates a battery that good....and light.

This can be compared to a 8hp or 9.9hp gas outboard

Called a Torqeedo and runs on 48v(they also have a 24v comparable to a 5hp) lithium-manganese batteries.

Tested on a 2.6ton 40ft 33 hours on one charge at 2.7kts...not too bad

 

[pecheux]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

This can be compared to a 8hp or 9.9hp gas outboard

Called a Torqeedo and runs on 48v(they also have a 24v comparable to a 5hp) lithium-manganese batteries.

Tested on a 2.6ton 40ft 33 hours on one charge at 2.7kts...not too bad

This is a beautifull piece of equipement ... I just went ahead and read about it ... I think it did say it was equivalent to a 6 hp gas motor. But I could not imagine having to carry the weight of two 12 volts batteries.

As for 2 strokes ... IMO using synthetic oils and leaner mix ratios greatly improves cleanliness of any 2 cycle outboard motors making then at par with injection powered OB's ... and clean enough to re-think some bans on certain lakes.