'56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Sorry 82rude...it's a gift I have! LOL. And Willyclay, you've been beside me every step of the way..I'm YOUR biggest fan!
Another question: kfa wrote: Assuming it's on motor, the simplest thing to check is the shift rod connector, found behind the little plate on the exhaust leg. Make sure both the upper and lower shift rods are secured tightly in the coupler. so I was wondering where is this "little plate" that I assume I must remove to check the shift rod?
Smart idea to check the lever manually on the motor itself, I shall do that. Now, 82, get back to work!!!

 

[82rude]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

ok boss !please dont make the list to long,lol.the plate should be part way down the lower leg of the motor before the cavatation plate.should be rectangular and 2 screws hold it there.

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

It's the little cover plate in the lower right-hand corner of this picture of your motor from another thread. Good luck!

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Well everything looked just fine behind that little plate, nothing loose so I will need to do a test on the lake when I get the chance and if it hasn't miraculously self-healed I guess I'm on to checking the dog (the clutch dog, that is).

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Before you start taking the lower unit apart, there is another adjustment for the shift lever on the motor that can be made. It should be in your manual and may differentiate procedures between "early models" and "late models". Yours is an "early model".

This is a one paragraph procedure on P.173 of the Clymer manual I believe you downloaded. The appropriate diagram (Fig.OM9-31) is on the same page. I recommend you try this before going inside the gearcase. Speaking of gearcase, have you checked the gear oil for water?

EDIT: The link below is to an online Johnson "factory" manual with the same procedure on P.435.

http://boatinfo.no/lib/johnson/manuals/1922-1964johnson.html#/0

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Ok, I just finished reading that part (different page number but same fig.#...odd?) and here it is:

On models before 1960, loosen the two clamp screws (S—Fig. OM9-31) on shift lever (A)and move lever until detent (D) is located in lower notch of speed control arm. Reach behind shift lever hub and rotate bell crank(B) clockwise as far as possible. NOTE:Turn propeller shaft to make sure that forward gear is completely engaged, and not butting up on top of clutch dogs. Hold bell crank in forward engaged position and tighten clamp screws (S).

My questions are: does "detent" mean an indentation? Do I disengage the shift cable before doing this?

Honestly, I haven't checked for water in the gear oil because I didn't know how to check that. :redface: I intended to change out the lower unit oil/grease eventually then didn't know if I should do that before opening it up to replace the impeller or if I have to open it to expose the clutch dog, I didn't know if that would be mean I'd lose the new oil and I would just have to replace it again. I'm in unfamiliar territory here.

 

[82rude]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

easy way is to disengage shift cabl yes.when you open up that little window you will see the top and lower shift rods and inbetween the 2 a bronze holder with 1 or 2 screws.which ever it may be just loosen a little and follow those instructions.indeed if you were to seperate the lower shift rod from the holder you will see that the rod is grooved.if it is in correctly i believe the screw will mate with the slot thus holding everthing in proper position.it is rare indeed that they come apart by themselves so im sceptical that thats your problem .as an addition unless you or somebody else has changed the impeller the shift rod wouldnt have been touched ,sorry.it needs to come apart to seperate the lower unit from the top.only the lower rod needs to be taken out when seperating the lower from the top part of the motor.

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

My questions are: does "detent" mean an indentation? Do I disengage the shift cable before doing this?

You have the correct procedure! The "detent" refers to the round end of the linkage (D) that moves the speed control arm when the shift lever is moved between F-N-R. Your brother, the mechanic, might call it a "cam". Yes, the remote control shift cable should be disengaged before beginning this adjustment.

I encourage you to replace the gear oil before you run the motor any more because there are several places that water can enter the gearcase and cause damage to the precision gears. You will want to address the driveshaft and propshaft seals when you have the lower unit pulled for a new water pump impeller. Fresh gear oil now is cheap insurance for one or two more outings. FYI, the most common location for water incursion is the washers on the drain and fill screws in the lower unit. I believe the correct p/n for the washers is 307552. They should be replaced every time you replace the oil. We are talking about less than one quart capacity for your gearcase.

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Finally had time to mess with this. Not sure I did the right procedure regarding checking the shift lever but I followed the directions as best I could. But here's the real kicker...you are NOT going to believe this one!! I went to change out the LU oil and after taking out the two screws...nothing but pure water came out! ALL water and not a drop of any kind of oil and it was as clear as out of the tap, not murky lake water.There was no evidence of metal shavings at all though, thank goodness. How is it possible that I've had it out to run 3 or 4 times and it's done great (32 mph!!) with no LU fluid, only water??? To dry it out, I sprayed Deep Creep in it and will be leaving it open all night long to dry out any residual water then I will blow compressed air through it before refilling it with the right stuff. I kind of beginning to hate this whole boating thing now. One problem after another.

Also, as per the directions on the procedure listed above, I tried to spin the prop by hand in each of the 3 shift positions. Here are the results: in forward the prop only goes a little bit clockwise and counter clockwise then stops. In neutral, the prop spins counter clockwise but locks after a small turn clockwise. Then in reverse, the prop spins freely all around. Is this normal??

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Sorry to hear about this latest challenge! You have done great so far with keeping that 56 year-old motor running when you had no clue about its history with the previous owner. Standing by to help anyway I can if you decide to stay after it. Plenty of very sharp members that will support your efforts also. Good luck!

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Thanks Willyclay. But can you explain that for me? How it ran with only pure water in the LU and no oil??

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Water has some minimal lubricating effects just not nearly as much as gear oil. Without question that has caused some damage to the clutch dog, gears and bearings. The "jumping out of gear" problem seems to be consistent with what you have discovered. The big question is do you still intend to take Mom out soon? If so, you could probably put gear oil in it and see what happens. It will not be doing anymore damage than has already occurred. If not, just think about what you want to do and the forum members will help you get there.

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Yes I'd LOVE to get her out on this dang thing before the weather gets too cool!!! She's feeling better today so I'd like to try for this Wednesday (only day without dr. appts). I can refill it with gear oil and take it out to see if that "heals it" at least temporarily and then bring mom out. When I removed the two screws, there wasn't any visible seals with the screws and couldn't really see well enough if there were seals stuck in the holes where the screws went in. Should they have come off with the screws, which I'd kind of assume since they would need to be removable to replace them? Do you think some idiot just filled it with water instead of gear oil?? Because I'm not kidding you, there wasn't so much as a drop of oil in there!

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Do you think some idiot just filled it with water instead of gear oil?? Because I'm not kidding you, there wasn't so much as a drop of oil in there!

I cannot stretch my imagination far enough to think the PO did that intentionally but also know some of the horror tales other members have reported in their threads. Somehow, we (forum) failed to have you check that earlier in the process and I cannot tell you how bad I am feeling now. FYI, what OMC called "washers" for the drain and fill screws are actually more like fiber gaskets rather than O-rings. Sierra parts lists them, are available from NAPA stores and are much cheaper than OEM.

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Oh please don't give it a second thought! I came on here asking very specific questions and everyone helped me out so much. I can't expect you guys to tell me EVERY little thing to check. I bought that impeller about a month ago and never got around to installing it which if I had I would have probably discovered this problem because I would have had to take off the LU to do that. It's my fault for not doing proper maint. before getting out on the water. I was so excited to get out in that old boat again, I guess I kinda jumped the gun a little. Live and learn.

I posted this above and wonder if you can answer this for me:
Also, as per the directions on the procedure listed above, I tried to spin the prop by hand in each of the 3 shift positions. Here are the results: in forward the prop only goes a little bit clockwise and counter clockwise then stops. In neutral, the prop spins counter clockwise but locks after a small turn clockwise. Then in reverse, the prop spins freely all around. Is this normal??

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

I do not believe it should lockup in neutral or spin freely in reverse. Did the shift lever linkage need much adjustment? Will check my motor in the morning and see how it compares with your findings.

When I get water in places it should not be, I always flush with WD-40 and it has never failed me. I like Deep Creep/Seafoam but I'm not sure it is the best product for this situation.

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Will check my motor in the morning and see how it compares with your findings.

Just checked the clutch dog engagement on my 1973 Evinrude 6HP for comparison and here's what I found: About 45 degree movement in both directions before hitting the stop in FWD & REV. Sometimes I have to wiggle the prop back and forth to get it to engage fully. That's what the note in the procedure is talking about "not butting" because the dog may not be fully seated in the gears.

In "Neutral", my prop spins freely without any noise or feedback feeling. Hope this helps!

EDIT: Here's a link to that Sierra washer/gasket for the drain and fill screws. The iboats.com store has them also under the same part number. We need to support the forum host whenever possible.

http://www.marineengine.com/newparts/part_details.php?pnum=SIE18-2945&ptype=&Engine=&Model=

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

That's how I would think it would work...spinning freely in neutral. So what does the way mine works mean? I found a clutch dog on ebay for $20 plus shipping. I will definitely get the washers on here... I looked up a seal kit on here but they were sold out.

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

So what does the way mine works mean?

I'm guessing you are checking it without gear oil and that may be giving misleading results. If you are pretty sure the adjustment is correct according to the manual procedure, I would put in fresh gear oil, new washers on the drain/fill screws and try it again. The whole water thing could have created some very unusual conditions in the gearcase. It's what I would do if it was my motor!

 

[82rude]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

That's how I would think it would work...spinning freely in neutral. So what does the way mine works mean? I found a clutch dog on ebay for $20 plus shipping. I will definitely get the washers on here... I looked up a seal kit on here but they were sold out.

readjust, it only takes a tiney bit to be out.as for the clutch dog is it new?if no,t why take the chance ,get a new one .personally the only way id ever buy a used part is if the new version isnt available anymore or way to expensive.