'56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

The clutch dog from ebay is new, the place is going out of business and is getting rid of their stock. It was listed as $40 with a "make an offer" so I offered $20 and he took it. The picture shows it new in box so we'll see.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Score! $20 for a clutch dog is a great deal. Once you get in installed it should make all the difference in the world. Best of all, you'll have a motor that both "runs" and "goes"

 

[freddyray21]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Oh please don't give it a second thought! I came on here asking very specific questions and everyone helped me out so much. I can't expect you guys to tell me EVERY little thing to check. I bought that impeller about a month ago and never got around to installing it which if I had I would have probably discovered this problem because I would have had to take off the LU to do that. It's my fault for not doing proper maint. before getting out on the water. I was so excited to get out in that old boat again, I guess I kinda jumped the gun a little. Live and learn.

I posted this above and wonder if you can answer this for me:
Also, as per the directions on the procedure listed above, I tried to spin the prop by hand in each of the 3 shift positions. Here are the results: in forward the prop only goes a little bit clockwise and counter clockwise then stops. In neutral, the prop spins counter clockwise but locks after a small turn clockwise. Then in reverse, the prop spins freely all around. Is this normal??

based on this it is out of adjustment badly. If it spins freely in reverse that means reverse is neutral and you have no reverse as it it out of adjustment. you need to go back through the adjustment procedure on the motor. don't worry about the cables. Get the motor right first.

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Well, I know why the prop was acting oddly. I had my daughters boyfriend help get the oil drain plug out because it wouldn't turn at all, was stuck on there good and I've finally found a use for this kid..he has muscles. LOL. He also has some motor knowledge and he took out another screw to help drain all the water. When looking at the parts manual it shows it as the "pivot screw". I was testing the prop with that screw still out. I had to put it in neutral to get the screw back in because the hole was blocked when I tried to reinsert it as it was in reverse. I don't know what this screw is there for but it obviously has something to do with the gears to the prop!! With screw back in place, the prop moves just like yours does, willyclay. Whew! I refilled the gear oil just now and I will have to test it on the water tomorrow if it doesn't rain.

 

[82rude]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

sounds like you got very very lucky.by taking out that other screw which is usually a philips head screw you could of caused yourself lots of grief.remember the oil screws are slotted,philips bad bad!

 

[freddyray21]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

the phillips screw is the pivot pin for the shift yoke.

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Oh Lordy, I have spent the past 45 minutes reading a fantastic article about exactly this problem from "Duckworks" magazine online and YES I am extremely lucky. Wish I'd read the dang thing a day earlier!!! It specifically pointed out that pivot screw and said "Do not confuse this pivot pin screw with the drain plugs. If you should manage to accidentally remove the pivot pin screw, immediately try to reinstall it and DON'T TOUCH THE SHIFT LEVER UNTIL THE PIN IS BACK IN. If you are lucky, the bell crank that rides on the pivot pin will not have slipped out of position and the pin will go back in without trouble." I think I'm lucky enough to buy a lottery ticket!! It also said that when trying to shift, you should slowly turn the prop in order to allow the engine to engage the gears. I had no idea I was supposed to move the prop as I mess with moving the shifter. :facepalm: I have no idea what I'm doing. I am probably completely to blame on why the clutch dog is probably ruined (I haven't removed it yet, waiting for new one to get here but I'm 99% sure now from what I've been reading that's the problem). I didn't know that you are supposed to shift from neutral into forward or reverse "sharply or crisply"...I'd been "easing it" because that seemed, well, smarter to be gentle. I think I've caused my whole problem. And while my reaction is to be mad at myself and just plain ol' mad in general, I have to realize that this is an opportunity to learn and go with it. Kicking and screaming, but learning. **sigh**

 

[kfa4303]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Better to be lucky than good. No worries. We've all done it......once Sometimes you can get lucky and line everything back up, but if not you have to open the gear case, which means you may as well reseal the lower unit, which is just more time and money you'd rather not have to spend.

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/04/s/columns/max/24/index.cfm

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

There is a good reason why your 56 year-old motor and many more just like it are still running. They will not die easily because they have to be murdered! I will not hijack your thread and list any of my screw-ups but they are numerous and some expensive. I think you have done an outstanding job throughout this process since you started in July. As I told you early-on, the members here are great and can help you with any problem. Good on ya, Kathy!

EDIT: In an effort to be more proactive, how was the gearcase refilled; from the top or bottom hole? It could make a difference.

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

from the bottom hole. That I DID google! I certainly don't want to become famous as the Johnson Javelin Murderer!! But you are right, they sure don't make things durable like they used to! This poor old thing might even be "Kathy-proof"...we shall see.

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Attagirl! How can we help you with the next step?

EDIT: The suspense is killing me! If you have not visited the Engine FAQ's, I recommend you do so because it has a wealth of info. Also, the link below will get you to forum guru Tashasdaddy's "Top Secret File" which is very helpful. May he RIP!

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=299680

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Sorry I haven't posted anything lately...I was diagnosed with Lyme Disease and hadn't been feeling well. I guess when you start antibiotics for this, you feel a lot worse before you feel better. I kind of feel like I'm exorcising a demon! Not good!
But I did manage to check manually shifting (while spinning the prop) and the shift feels smoother since there's actual gear oil in there now (duh!!!) and also the prop moves just like you said yours does, so that was part of my problem before. I'm very anxious to get it out on the lake to do a test...maybe later this afternoon I can get hubby to hook up the trailer to the boat and at least that will be half the work..I just don't have any energy right now. I promise I'll let you know!!

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Well, I had a burst of energy (thank God for Motrin!) and took it out to the lake. Unfortunately, what I've done so far (the shift adjustment and adding gear oil) didn't make a bit of difference as it's still slipping out of forward. Clutch dog is on it's way to me so I'll be reading up everything I can on dropping the LU and replacing that as well as replacing the impeller while I'm in there.

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Sorry I haven't posted anything lately...I was diagnosed with Lyme Disease and hadn't been feeling well.

No apology needed while you battle that challenge. Hope you feel lots better real soon!

I am sorry that the gear oil didn't magically fix the problem but it only cost you 12oz. of oil to find out. Would recommend you drain it again just in case it has more water in it. Also, I am including a link to another thead that involves removing the lower unit of a motor newer than yours because I wanted you to have a "heads-up" about a potential problem when you start trying to remove 56 year-old nuts, bolts and machine screws. As you might imagine, they do not all come out easily or intact. Not trying to scare you, just providing another dose of reality to go along with what you have already acquired in your quest. Good luck!

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=579226

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Thanks WC...I have soaked all involved nuts/bolts in WD40 for a couple days. I was considering taking off the lower unit and replacing the shift dog (which arrived in today's mail) and changing out the impeller, but I won't be able to reassemble it until I get the replacement seals kit in. Are there any good links/videos for removing the LU? Do I just unscrew those bolts or do I have to also undo the lower shift cable that's under the little "window" plate on the left side of the motor? I feel like I'm going into this blind & wish I could teleport you here to help me! LOL. I will take lots of pictures as I take it apart (I always do that with whatever project I tackle) and take notes too. But just get me started by letting me know how to get the thing off and I'm pretty sure I won't have any problems replacing those two parts. Thanks!!!

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Do I just unscrew those bolts or do I have to also undo the lower shift cable that's under the little "window" plate on the left side of the motor?

Before you unscrew any bolts, you must disconnect the shift rod linkage inside the exhaust housing that is under the little "window" plate. Only unscrew the bottom screw on the shift rod clamp! Max at Duckworks recommends shifting the gears into REV before you disconnect as an aid in the reassembly because you will be trying to line up three things simultaneously: drive shaft, water tube and shift rod. There is a link to his process in post #48 in this thread. I believe there are six upside-down bolts that must be removed as well as one right-side up on the rear of the exhaust housing halfway between the exhaust bypass outlet and the AVP. That one is clearly seen in this picture of your motor below. I like to do this one last so I can control the lower unit. Get a helper if you can to make it easier.

The Clymer manual is very brief discussing this procedure and I think the Johnson factory manual I previously linked you is difficult to follow. No videos that I have found but leeroysramblings.com is a very good source of info with lots of pictures. Some lower units come off easily, some can be difficult. Once you get it off, it will need to be secured upside-down on a workbench to open the gearcase. Reinstalling it will be easier with a helper if for nothing more than guiding the shift rod into the clamp. Good luck!

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem


So I need to remove the bottom nut/bolt first, as seen in this picture, right? And then should I remove the propeller while the LU is still attached to the rest of the motor? I can do this, I know I can, I'm just imagining taking it off and either A) fixing it all up and not being able to put it back together or B) Carefully opening up the transmission box and having everything pop out at me like it's a box full of bearings packed with springs!! LOL. In my worst nightmare, it would be full of spiders....that would be the absolute end of me!
Ran out of energy today, this Lyme disease crap is really taking me for a loop; only a little over a week ago I rode my bike 62 miles in 4 hours! Today I haven't had enough energy to do more than take the trash out and lay in the spot of sunlight on the living room floor with the dogs. But tomorrow...I WILL attack this LU!!!

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

So I need to remove the bottom nut/bolt first, as seen in this picture, right? And then should I remove the propeller while the LU is still attached to the rest of the motor?

Yes and yes. Based on what you have accomplished so far with that old beauty of unknown history, I believe you can do this also. Your willingness to try is the most important factor. The potential outcome of this repair does not include the possibility of someone getting hurt or killed so you should not imagine the worst. Stay positive, read, ask questions and I think you will be successful!

Comments: A)Getting it off will be far more difficult than reinstalling because of the possible corroded bolts and B)Working on it upside down prevents stuff from falling out because your model does not have springs. FYI, the water tube is copper and can be damaged easily so completely remove it asap after you get the LU off. I use a Black&Decker Workmate that allows me to clamp a LU with wood jaws instead of in a steel vise. Don't rule out spiders inside the exhaust housing but more likely it will be dirt dobbers!

Attention to details like the "O"-ring near the top of the driveshaft plus the condition of the water pump housing and base plate will help insure a high-quality repair. New seals for the driveshaft and propshaft are a must at this point as well as the seal for the two halves of the gearcase. Take your time, be thorough, do it properly this one time and that classic Javelin will be good for another 56 years!

Finally, I cannot comprehend riding a bike 62 miles in four hours but can fully understand your frustrations with the effects of Lyme disease. Hang in there and take it one day at a time!

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem


Part One of Tear Down repair!! Had absolutely NO problems removing the LU from the rest of the motor, had been soaking the bolts with WD 40 for days so I'm sure that helped. Removed prop as well. O ring at top of of driveshaft is there but has a little bit of "play" to it and seems looser than it ought to be by my guess so I will replace it. On the picture, the pink arrows point to bits of black hard crud that I found on the inside and down in the "well" where the gear oil used to be. Not a whole lot down in there but built up hard in the pink arrow on the right side depression. I cleaned all of the gunk out of there with paper towels. Now, I had all kinds of confidence at this point (yah!!) but then I got to the 3 screws circled in blue and they will not budge. So it's back to my old buddy WD40 and a long soak overnight although I hate waiting and was ready to open that puppy up and see what the old impeller looks like since I have no idea if/when the PO changed it out, even though it does pump out water at a pretty good rate. I hope it's loosened the screws up enough by tomorrow because I am NOT about to break them off. I thought the difficult part would be removing the LU from the motor, not getting stuck with these 3 screws. If they come out tomorrow, then I'm going to change out the imp. and move on to the gears to replace the clutch dog. (DANG! I actually sound like I know what I'm doing!! LOL) Btw, gear oil smells horrible!
One more question: I know I will need to regrease the splines at the top of the drive shaft, can I use the grease I have for my trailer wheel bearings?

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

One more question: I know I will need to regrease the splines at the top of the drive shaft, can I use the grease I have for my trailer wheel bearings?

As forum moderator Bond-o says, "Any grease is better than no grease at all." The purpose of the grease in conjunction with a new o-ring is to prevent water from entering that joint and rusting the driveshaft together with the crankshaft. The experts recommend a waterproof grease like used on the rest of the motor's grease zerks/fittings. OMC called it Type A back in the old days. See the link below:

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=178716

Glad to hear it removed easily. The "black hard crud" is exactly what you should expect to find at the bottom of the exhaust housing on a two-stroke motor. That is partially/unburned oil from the fuel mixture. No worries! The three screws holding the water pump housing are probably corroded due to electrolysis between dissimilar metals (SS screws in cast aluminum gearcase). While WD-40 is a great product and I buy it by the bulk gallon, it is primarliy a water dispersant and not a very good solvent or lubricant. Forum members, me too, prefer PB Blaster for a penetrating solvent. However, because this is likely corrosion, the best approach may be an impact driver to break the bond and hopefully not snap the screws. You will probably need it again to remove the screws in the gearcase. Your brother may be able to loan you one of these specialized tools. Good luck!

You have me convinced you sound like you know what you are doing. The gear oil should not smell bad. It should smell like oil. How much water was in the gearcase after the last test outing?

One last comment is don't throw away the old impellor since it seems to have been pumping pretty well during your test runs. It may come in handy some day. Also, the condition of the inside of the pump housing and the pump base plate is critical for the new impellor to seal properly for maximum water pressure & flow. Inspect it carefully!