'56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Thanks for the quick reply...I've been checking back on here to see what words-o-wisdom you had for me! I went to the hardware store to get PB Blaster since I'd heard that was best but they were out. I'll have to try another store this afternoon. Is an impact driver the same as a hammer drill? If so I have one of those! I bought anti-seize lube for whenever I put everything back together again. There was only a bit of water in the gear casing this time, but I hadn't replaced the gaskets on those two screws yet..I have new O rings on the screws now. I read about the importance of making sure the water pump housing and plate are very clean so I'll definitely take care of that. Someone mentioned putting some kind of lubricant on the new impeller so it isn't "run dry" the first time. Do you recommend doing that and if so, do I use gear grease or Vaseline? Also where do I apply the grease...just to the ends that will touch the sides or to the flat surfaces that will touch the housing plate?
Oh, on another note you'll love this: Had a repair guy out to the house to fix our A/C unit (which has had a leak since July that no one could find til now, when it's getting cold!) and he saw the LU sitting in the garage. He said "So what's your hubby working on?" And I said, "That's my project. I'm working on my boat motor." He gave me that "yeah, right" look and said "Oh really? YOUR project huh? What are you doing?" And I replied, "Well, I have to remove these screws to get to the water pump and replace the impeller then I'm going to flip it upside down so I can access the gear case and replace the clutch dog, the transmission was slipping out of forward into neutral." You could hear crickets chirp and his eyebrows just went up. I just smiled and he just nodded. Conversation over..point went to me.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

sweeet! GRRL POWER! Sure you can put a bit of grease on the impeller. I just put a bit of Vaseline on the tips of the fins, myself. Here's a link with lots of pics to a basic impeller job. It's for a much smaller motor, but like all these old OMCs, once you can fix a 3 hp, you can fix a 33 hp. Make sure you only ever rotate the drive shaft CLOCKWISE. If you don't, the fins on the impeller can fold backwards within the impeller housing and not work as well. Hope it helps. Keep us posted.

http://www.outboard-boat-motor-repa...ower Unit and Replace Impeller Water Pump.htm

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Success Part 1: With the help of a mechanic who had an impact driver (and vise grips after the first blow took sheered off part of the top of the bolt), got the water pump housing open, cleaned up and impeller replaced (then bought my own impact driver). Housing looked very good and impeller was in very good shape as well so I kept it. Replaced O ring at top of drive shaft. Now I did panic a bit when I couldn't find an obvious loose key piece as everyone warned me not to lose! Then I looked at the drive shaft and saw a nub sticking out from one side and figured that nub looked like it would fit the notch in the impeller as a "key". Even though it wasn't something that came off freely, it was attached to the shaft, I do believe that must have been my key because it locks onto the impeller and allows the shaft to turn it. I highlighted it in orange in one of these pictures. Will write another post below with more pictures because I'm kind of stuck at the part where I replace the clutch dog.

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem


Ok, I can't seem to get the top off completely, seems to be attached at that point at the back top, which I think is where that phillips screw attaches that I am not supposed to remove (like I accidentally did before when I was draining the gear oil. At this point, do I just remove all the gear guts from the housing in order to replace the clutch dog, being sure to do everything exactly back in the order it was in before (+the replacement part)? What's the best way to get it out? There is a still the prop post sticking out the rear of the housing so do I just tilt it up in the front and slide it forward? Do I have to unattach anything else first? Not making a move til I hear from my experts!

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Ok, I lied..I couldn't wait and had to go out and stare at it in the garage a little longer. I decided to unscrew the dreaded phillips screw and behold...it unlatched the fin section so I could access everything. I still couldn't lift the full assembly out because it was getting hung up on the shifter assembly/cradle thing but I tilted up the transom end and was able to slide the pieces off until I got to the clutch dog and then swapped it out for the new part and replaced everything. I won't be able to close up the whole thing and test it until my seal kit gets here in a few days. Yippee!!!

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Then I looked at the drive shaft and saw a nub sticking out from one side and figured that nub looked like it would fit the notch in the impeller as a "key". Even though it wasn't something that came off freely, it was attached to the shaft, I do believe that must have been my key because it locks onto the impeller and allows the shaft to turn it. I highlighted it in orange in one of these picture.

Your observation is correct that your motor uses the "nub" (pin) as the drive key for the impeller. Wow, you have been busy!

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

I still couldn't lift the full assembly out because it was getting hung up on the shifter assembly/cradle thing but I tilted up the transom end and was able to slide the pieces off until I got to the clutch dog and then swapped it out for the new part and replaced everything.

The only thing holding the shifter assembly/cradle thing in place is a bushing with an o-ring where it passes through the housing. That o-ring should be replaced with the other seals. Although you have already replaced the clutch dog, the propshaft with all the gears, bearings, etc. should lift straight up while you pull the shift rod out of the housing. You're doing great and I cannot believe only one screw snapped off. Did you inspect the teeth on the gears, find metal chips or any other signs of damage?

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Thanks! No signs of damage on the gears (thank goodness!) but the 'ears' on the clutch dog were definitely worn and I noticed the one of the worn spots was shinier so I assume that means it's a fresh worn spot. I bought the PB Blaster stuff and soaked the screws, smacked them with the impact driver and then would soak with more PBB, wait a minute then smack again. The one screw that broke was the first one that my mechanic friend hit when he was trying to help me loosen them. I said (well, I can't repeat the actual word I said first!) "now what??" and he got out the vise grips and was able to remove it using them.
I will take pictures of it completely opened up now and can you circle the area that you are referring to in your post above? (" bushing with an O ring where it passes through the housing")? When I get the seal kit in, I am going to lay them all out and take a picture of them with "A, B, C" etc next to each one and maybe someone on here will be so kind as to tell me where each one goes because I don't think there will be any guide with the kit. Off to get a picture....

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

 

[kfa4303]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Hello again Kathy. Glad you got everything apart. Not so scary once you see it for yourself. The clutch dog is definitely worn. Amazing how that tiny bit of wear can keep the whole motor from engaging the gears. Modern clutch dogs usually have 3, or more ears and usually don't wear out. On the other hand, it is 50+ years old, so I suppose it has to give up the ghost some time. Here's a pic with the bushing that I think they were referring to in the other post. When you get your new reseal kit in, lay it all out and post a pic and we'll label it for you. Don't be surprised if the kit comes with some bits you don't need for your particular model. Also, be sure you have some gasket sealant on hand. The factory recommends a product called 3M 847. It's great stuff, but can be hard to find unless you order it online (I think Grainger's carries it, if you have one of those near by). Other folks use various other products such as Permatex aviation gasket sealant, which you can get ant any autostore. Either way, just make sure it is NOT soluble in oil. You don't need much, a small toothpaste size tube is enough to do several reseal jobs.



typical lower unit seal kit: (just an example. Post a pic of your kit when you get it and we'll label that one too.)



Basic LU reseal link:

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=277190&highlight=lower+unit+seal+kit+installation

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Thanks for the pictures and the link to that post...that's REALLY going to help when I get the kit in the mail!
To prevent the bolts from the electrolysis in the future, I cleaned them off and put anti-seize gel on them but now after reading that forum post, I wonder if I am supposed to do that AND use the sealer or if I shouldn't have used the anti-seize at all? Here's the post quote I'm referring to:
Don't use o-rings on the skeg screws. You need to clean them up and use a sealer on them and the spaghetti seal. The recommended sealer is Scotch Grip 847 adhesive. Use the same sealer around the oil seals (sparingly) before installation.
After reading all the difficulty that guy had with removing the driveshaft seal, I'm pretty nervous about doing that. I know that the BEST thing to do is to replace all seals while I have it apart but is it too horrible to only replace the easiest ones to do? :redface:

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

View attachment 169782

Just follow the shift rod to where it passes through the housing and you will find the o-ring and bushing that I referenced. Member kfa4303 is much more current on this repair than me so we are both getting good direction and I will take all the help I can get. I will try out my MS Paint skills he also helped me with and see if i can at least draw a circle. LOL

EDIT: I guess everybody on the forum but me can draw stuff on pictures!

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

I can help you with drawing on a picture!!! What program do you use? When I have a picture, I right click on it and go to "Open with.." then choose your program. I use Microsoft Digital Image Pro but tell me what you use and I can easily walk you through that! Finally something I'm good at! lol

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Anything you can do to prevent corroded screws/bolts in the future is okay. The sealant is probably best because it is more effective at keeping water out of the places it should not be.

IMHO you should do ALL the seals since you have come this far. As my wife tells me all the time, "don't borrow trouble" by anticipating the worst with that seal the other member posted about. However, you are doing the work and it's easy for me to sit here and type words that may have a drastic effect on your project. Any decision you make will be supported!

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Looks to me like you are good at everything you try and if you think you are up to the Geezer Challenge, I have WIN7 Home with MS Paint.

EDIT: When I right click on the picture I used, I do not get the option to "Open with....".

AGAIN: I've got it figured out now so don't waste your time on me. It works on pictures "saved" to my computer and not on pictures you posted unless I am missing something else. Thanks for the offer!

 

[kfa4303]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Hello again Kathy. Even though it's a bit intimidating, I would take the time to replace all the seals while you have everything taken apart. Better to leave them all be, or replace them all. A little $7 seal puller will help tremendously. You can use a bit of anti-seeze on the threads of the bolts, if you like, but you should use the 3M (Scotch Guard) 847 on the perimeter of the driveshaft and propshaft seals, as well as on the spaghetti seal. You should also put a dab on the head of each of the six smaller bolts that hold the two halves of the gear case together as well as the small phillips head bolt. The trickiest part of all is removing the shift shaft o-ring bushing mentioned in the previous post. There are lots of different tricks for getting it out. A forum member, F_R, makes a special little tool that works great. I use an old spade but and a socket extender myself. Look at the 8th post in the link below:

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=277190&highlight=lower+unit+seal+kit+installation



Even though it's a bit of a pain, it's well worth doing as this is one of the prime spots for water intrusion into the gearcase. The old o-rings that were used tended to be rather thin and would leak in time, but the new ones that come in the reseal kits are much thicker and do a much better job of sealing things up. The rest of the seals and o-rings are pretty east and straight forward to replace.

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Easy fix for your paint problem: just right click on one of my pictures, click "Save As" then give the picture a name and save it in "My Pictures". Now it's in your computer and you can pull it up to draw on it. Just delete it after you've finished uploading the drawn-on picture.

I know, you are absolutely right that I really should replace all the seals while I've got it open and accessible, I'm just afraid I'm going to get in over my head trying to pull out parts and not be able to get them back in and should have left well enough alone. What are the most critical seals that MUST be replaced, in case I chicken out as far as doing all of them?

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Easy fix for your paint problem: just right click on one of my pictures, click "Save As" then give the picture a name and save it in "My Pictures". Now it's in your computer and you can pull it up to draw on it. Just delete it after you've finished uploading the drawn-on picture.

Thanks for your patience with old people!

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Kfa, you guys are absolutely right... I need to do this right the first time around and not be stupid. Do hardware or auto parts stores carry that seal puller? We don't have any marine stores around here. I've printed out pictures from your posts and will have them on hand when I replace the seals. I like the idea of using the spade bit and socket extender....I come up with creative tools myself. I also have the use of my dental hygiene tools that come in handy in odd situations (and it doesn't hurt to have small hands that are very strong from doing dentistry for more than 2 decades!)

 

[nwcove]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Easy fix for your paint problem: just right click on one of my pictures, click "Save As" then give the picture a name and save it in "My Pictures". Now it's in your computer and you can pull it up to draw on it. Just delete it after you've finished uploading the drawn-on picture.

I know, you are absolutely right that I really should replace all the seals while I've got it open and accessible, I'm just afraid I'm going to get in over my head trying to pull out parts and not be able to get them back in and should have left well enough alone. What are the most critical seals that MUST be replaced, in case I chicken out as far as doing all of them?

dont chicken out on us now!!! just do what youve been doing !, all the seals should be done while you have it apart, or you will probably be taking it apart again. great thread, and you are a true inspiration for anyone who has reservations about any of the DIY projects on ob's....and i can only imagine what other projects you have on the go. keep it up girl!!!