'56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

[nwcove]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

hi kath, i admittedly dont work on the bigger hp oldies, but in pic #2 it looks as tho the old seal is still in the seal retainer. have a look at the exploded view of your lower unit and it may help shed some light. but plz do wait for some of the other members to chime in before you take my advice on that !!

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem


SO frustrated! I should be able to figure this one out. After much searching and looking at the exploded diagram, etc. I figured that the replacement part HAD to go in the center of the old part, that the center of the old one had to pop out. But I was too scared to actually try and force it and mess everything up for good. Then I had a realization that the new part can't be the replacement for the center of the old one because it's not deep enough. When I lay them both side by side, the replacement seal isn't nearly as deep or "high" as the old part. The old center part is flush at the top and bottom and this one is only about 1/2 to 3/4 of that height. Is this not the correct replacement part? Or does it simply go somewhere else? Help!!

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem



OR as I researched I found a link on here where someone else had a motor where when they went to take it apart to replace this seal, there were TWO of the same seals, set up back to back. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=524462 So I tried that and slid in on the shaft for a picture. I don't know if that other person had them both fitted inside the housing because mine cannot, the second replacement seal definitely juts out. Don't worry, I'm not about to shut it all up and try it like this but I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure it out and I'm trying all different ideas.

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

anyone??

 

[Willyclay]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

OR as I researched I found a link on here where someone else had a motor where when they went to take it apart to replace this seal, there were TWO of the same seals, set up back to back. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=524462 So I tried that and slid in on the shaft for a picture. I don't know if that other person had them both fitted inside the housing because mine cannot, the second replacement seal definitely juts out. Don't worry, I'm not about to shut it all up and try it like this but I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure it out and I'm trying all different ideas.

Kathy, I only have a few minutes and thought I would check-in on you. That old thread is an outstanding one with some of the best experts on the forum providing info. OEM was one seal which later became two seals for improved performance. Seal OD & ID are the most critical dimensions but the thickness can and does vary as long as it does not exceed the dimensions of the retainer/housing. Good luck!

 

[kfa4303]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Hi Kathy. Here are some pics of what I think you need to do. If the two seals don't fit in the bearing, I wouldn't force them to. The thickness of the seal may vary a bit, but as long as it is properly seated in the housing with a bit of gasket sealant around its outer edge, it should keep the oil in, which is all that matters. The trickiest bit can be removing the old seal(s) without damaging the relatively soft aluminum housing. A seal puller, some penetrating oil, a few rags and a vice can help make the job easier, but don't be surprised if you have to snip, clip, and chop the old ones out. I hope this helps. If not, holler back. We WILL get that motor running and going! Hang in there

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

THANK YOU FOR REPLYING!!! I've been checking this site every hour since yesterday! Yes it does appear to be factory paint so i assume that it has never been changed out and definitely ought to be. So I tap it from the non-painted side, got it. But one last question...what is the brass-like ring that's inside the old seal of which there doesn't seem to be one of inside the replacement one? Does that part need to come out of the old seal somehow and be put into the replacement one?

 

[nwcove]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

jmo, but i would have no issue with using the thinner single seal to replace the oe seal, but if there is a place nearby that sells bearings/seals, you probably can get the second seal to install , or get one to match the original, they would only be a few bucks.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

PM sent.

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Thank you Joe, I sent an email!

 

[cgibbo308]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

gday Kath and to all the guys helping you.
Its 1am and im half awake reading this. BUT...
Can you all PLEASE, have a look at the gear pics Kath posted.
The bearing at the back of the case has me worried and i dont know ifits from me being tired or what.
Kath, Can you, if you havnt got it togethe, Wipe that back bearing and tell me what color it is and if there are any ridges in it.
I dont mean to be hard to get along with, but to me it has ablue color to it and i cant tell if its had the d^%K or if its crud from pulling it appart.
as i said, i dont know if its because i am tired but it looks to have color to it as if the bearing has been spinning in the case.
you have it down this far. it may pay to pull them out and replace. they should only be about $10 each i would think and any bearing shop may stock them. all bearing have a unique number stamped on them that carries from year to yearand country to country..

NOW.. having said my half sleep deprived panic.
You are FANTASTIC Kath. You are doing work my mates wouldnt DREAM of doing, and you are doing it with grace and style.
dog gears dont usualy mesh by much, so they only need to round the edges a bit and they will jump out of gear.

anyway. if you dont, some elsemay understand what im getting at in regards to the bearing.
have fun and keep up the good work
chris

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Hi Chris! WOW!!!! This thread is getting answers from Australia now?? I'm honored to have so many folks helping out, from the U.S., Canada and now you!

Is the blue color you're noticing on the far right in this picture I'm reposting now (off a little bit away from the arrow)? If so, I can explain that. It's the gasket sealant that I put on when I replaced that seal. That's the only blue I see in the picture. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you're referring to. Could you copy the picture you see that in and indicate the area you're questioning? I'm going to work on this today and hope and pray I can get it all back together so I can do a test run on the water tomorrow.

 

[nwcove]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

i cant see any sign that either bearing got hot and discolored or spun in the housing. it all looks fine from here.

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

MUCH PROGRESS TODAY!! Thanks to some hand-holding and reassurance that yes, I was supposed to remove and replace that prop shaft seal from the housing, I hunkered down and got 'er done! I replaced that and also used the seal puller to take out the driveshaft seal under the water pump..a little PB Blaster and a little coaxing and it popped right out, new one went in fine. Now, my last seal to replace is the small O ring on the shift rod above the bushing....but I see no bushing. It's just the shift rod, ending in a nub kind of like a transistor radio antenna. ?? I attached pictures of it, one showing it the shift rod from the side, one looking down at it from above and I even went out to the motor and took a pic up inside it in case somehow the bushing was stuck up in there when I removed the LU. Nothing. Is my motor different? Where do I put that last 0 ring so I can get this thing all done and back together?

 

[HighTrim]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Hi Glad you are getting along with this. I think I forget some of the questions as Im a bit behind here, but will answer the remaining one and hope the rest you figured out.

You remove the shift rod completely to get the shift rod o ring and bushing out. I hope you havent already buttoned up the skeg! If so, you have to take all that back apart, sorry.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Here is my home made shift rod bushing removal tool

Here is it in action

Here is it removed, with the o ring and some 3M 847

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

That's the last question and yep, you answered it great, complete with pictures which I am the kind of person that really needs that. Unfortunately, yes, the skeg is all buttoned up snug as a bug in a rug. :facepalm: On a scale of 1-10 with 10 be catastrophic, how bad of shape am I in if I don't replace this one last seal? lol..I'm getting so sick of this thing and taking the skeg apart yet again might just be the end of me. If you say it's an absolute must, then I'll do it. Otherwise, I'm considering putting the LU back on, refilling the gear oil and giving it a try on the lake tomorrow then checking the oil again afterwards for evidence of water. Honestly, I'll be a happy chick if I never have to smell gear oil again!

 

[HighTrim]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

We all know how you feel. I think we have all buttoned something up, only to remember that 1 bolt we forgot to torque, or that missing o ring, been there, done that.

There is nothing wrong with your plan. If its not leaking you may be ok. However, I find that the shift rod o rings are a usual culprit for leakage. If you try it as is, all you are really behind is dropping the gearcase again, as you already have it sealed up anyways.

By the way, you should be wearing shoes when working on outboards, dont want one dropping on your toes, lol

 

[kfa4303]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

HI Kathy. Glad you made some progress. While less than ideal, you'll probably be ok. Of all the seals/o-rings, the shift shaft rod seal is probably the least important, all things considered. You may get a bit of water in the gearcase, but it hopefully won't be too bad (jinx). Obviously, the other seals are much more important considering they're constantly submerged and hold in the oil. If worse comes to worse, you can periodically drain/inspect the gear oil and top it off as needed, which is not that uncommon on these old motors truth be told. Not to mention the fact that they're not the greatest design in the first place. Lots of potential places water can get it. If you notice, modern motors generally have a single unit as the gearcase. However, if you installed the seals correctly and take your time putting everything back together it should be fine for many moons to come. Good luck. Keep us posted.

 

[KathyD19]

Re: '56 Johnson Javelin Shift/Throttle problem

Thank you again, everyone. I admit, I went the "cheaters route" and didn't do that last seal. But if there's any problem at all, I will and I'll be so fortunate to be able to reference the awesome detailed post from High Trim! I put the LU back on the motor tonight, tested shifting it forward and reverse and everything feels smooth. I put it in neutral and spun the prop a little bit, just to get everything oiled up good (don't know if it helps but it made me feel proactive!) Tomorrow afternoon I will drive it to the lake and we shall see if I did this right. I will definitely post and let everyone know...then we can put this thread to bed!

Oh, and High Trim, I had no idea my toes were in that picture...too funny!!! I had sandals on since I was going back and forth from the garage to the house with my camera. So help me, if that motor fell on my toes, I guarantee I would have come up with cuss word combinations that would make a sailor faint!