At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Well I decided to spray another guide coat below the waterline because I just wasn't happy with it. As you will see I still have a few low spots on the part I have sanded but these are all on the keel area which I was talking about earlier. I might be able to just fill these spots with gel using the squeegy but I know I wont get them perfect. The keel and surrounding areas were really bad when I got the boat (not a straight line anywhere on the hull) I basically had to reshape the full keel, and i've done this to the best of my ability, so I will just have to live with it. The rest of the hull looks and feels really good but I will see if this is still the case when the sunlight hits the new shiny gel.

I have to spend tomorrow and sunday sanding the guide coat and preparing for the spray itself, so it looks like i wont be spraying untill monday. I give the compressors back on tuesday so this is a must.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Don't stress over it too much, it won't affect the performance and only the fish will know if it's perfect or not.

And if any body does get to see it at the same angle you can right now, you will have much bigger problems to worry about.

 

[oops!]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

ditto to what on-da-river said, not too many a specialists have ever pulled a perfect job.
lazer straight is a dream....
one of the biggest things for home builders is not knowing when the job is ready to go on to the next stage.
dont forget......you will also have to sand the gellcoat.....so a perfect base job can be messed up by over sanding a gellcoat.
on the other hand.,...fairing gellcoat can cover a multuide of sins

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

don't stress over it too much, it won't affect the performance and only the fish will know if it's perfect or not.

And if any body does get to see it at the same angle you can right now, you will have much bigger problems to worry about.

lol. cheers ondarvr. I'm gonna sand the remaining guide coat and call it good enough, It might not even be as bad as i think it is going to be and if it does turn out to be so bad that I just can't live with it, THEN I will do the repair work.

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

ditto to what on-da-river said, not too many a specialists have ever pulled a perfect job.
lazer straight is a dream....
one of the biggest things for home builders is not knowing when the job is ready to go on to the next stage.

Thats so true, I've lost count with the amount of times I've spent too much time on one area (there comes a point where you have reached the best of your ability and to keep going just makes it worse)

dont forget......you will also have to sand the gellcoat.....so a perfect base job can be messed up by over sanding a gellcoat.
on the other hand.,...fairing gellcoat can cover a multuide of sins

Again - well said Oop's

A big thanks to you and Ondarve for giving me the little push that I needed, no more whining from me now, (I mean it this time lol

Well I'm gonna crack on with the sanding, its only 6am here but as i am sanding with a board, it shouldn't wake the neighbours, I just hope I dont forget the time and start using the grinders/sanders.

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

well today's the day. Just a few more things to do before I get to pull the trigger - final vaccum, solvent wipe, mask, etc.
I tested the compressors yesterday with the pot and gun and i'm sure they will do the job. So hopefully in a few hours my hull is eventually all one colour. Then the sanding begins ( or should i say continues - at least this time I will be sanding towards a finish )

More pics later if all goes well.

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

well today was the day right enough.

POSITIVES : -

the spray job is completed
my boat is all one colour now
gel didn't kick in the gun
I can get the boat out the garage now

NEGATIVES : -
!! MASSIVE orange peel !!
flys, spiders stuck in gel
air hose caught in the wet gel numerous times
my garage is all one colour now (loads of overspray)

All of the above negatives I can live with apart from the orange peel, I think orange peel is an understatement so we will have to come up with a new word for this spray job.

The gel looked as if it was going on ok at first but by the time I sprayed my first coat I realized there was far too much orange peel, I managed to fix this by reducing the fluid setting to half way and air at the tip was increased all the way, But by this time the damage was done. I sprayed a total of 3 coats (last one waxed , which is taking a hell of a long time to cure) approx 4.5 gallon to take into account the amount of sanding I will have to do just to get an even surface. Hope this is enough.

Someone please tell me they have had this much orange peel before and that it is fixable.

not bad from this distance

still not the worst

Now for some orange peel !!

 

[ondarvr]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

That looks to be a little more than the average amount of orange peel, but that's why they make sand paper.

At this point you start sanding and hope there is enough gel coat on there so you don't sand through.
Start with some 320 grit on a DA and see how that works, just do a small 1' x 1' section and get the entire process worked out before you continue on and do the rest of it.

On your 1' x 1' section start with coarse paper and continue to about 1000, but you can stop and try to buff after 600 and 800 and see if it yields the results you like, if it does you know you can stop sanding at that grit and buff.

Every gel coat is a little different, so the exact procedure needs to be worked out for the product you used.

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

That looks to be a little more than the average amount of orange peel, but that's why they make sand paper.

At this point you start sanding and hope there is enough gel coat on there so you don't sand through.
Start with some 320 grit on a DA and see how that works, just do a small 1' x 1' section and get the entire process worked out before you continue on and do the rest of it.

On your 1' x 1' section start with coarse paper and continue to about 1000, but you can stop and try to buff after 600 and 800 and see if it yields the results you like, if it does you know you can stop sanding at that grit and buff.

Every gel coat is a little different, so they exact procedure needs to be worked out for the product you used.

Thanks for the advice ondarvr. Just a LITTLE more than average? lol.
I will do as you suggest and sand a small section first. I may just start on the transom and see if I can get that to a decent finish.

I'm not too disheartened because this is my first time using spray equipment, I'm just happy I managed to apply the gel. Also if worst comes to worst and I have to respray the hull at least I have a bit of experience now and I will know what to look out for.

I cant wait to hit it with sandpaper, but that wont be for another 48 hours.

 

[lonnie t]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

dont worry about the bugs ,it adds to the value of your boat lol
but dont sweat about it , its all apart of learning

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

This is how I full spray gel..

1. Get an el-cheapo Harbor Frieght 2 QT pressure pot ( NOT HVLP ).
2. Mix your gelcoat with 25ish % MEK Solvent ( Not the MEKP ) . Its kinda hard to tell how much you would thin because gelcoats are not All the same in viscosity. You want it kinda like tomato soup out of the can before you warm it up.
3. Have your surface all ready to go ( wiped down with acetone .. masked off etc. ).
4. Suit up good. Respo,suit,gloves,goggles with the holes taped up.
5. Have a box of powdered latex gloves, A few gals of acetone, cups , stir sticks, rags, a brush ( for clean up ).
6. Mix up your gel ( approx 10 CC per quart ).
7. put that in your pressure pot and start shooting away. Use side to side spray patterns. Release the trigger at the ends of the swipe. Basically you pull the trigger all the way back when you start your first motion...then release the trigger stopping the fluid ( keep the air still going just not the fluid )..then pull the trigger when coming back on your pass.
8. When you run out of gel.. open the pot up and put a few cups of acetone in there..flush it.
9. mix some more gel and do that over and over untill you have a good couple thick coats on there.
10. Clean your gun well with acetone. When flushing the gun you want to turn off the air leading to your GUN. you should only have a pee stream comeing from the tip of your gun when flushing ( You will need to have a "cheater" valve hooked to the bottom end of the gun itself for adjusting the air pressure to full off at the gun). Its hard to explain .. Ill take some pics of my gun setup so you know what im talking about.
11. wait untill the gel is tacky to the finger but does not pull off..then spray over the gelcoat with PVA (Polyvinyl alcohol).
12.let cure for a day. .. Rinse off with water and start your sanding steps ( Dry or wet-dry is does not matter ).
13.Buff out.

I would suggest that you play with your gun with water to kinda get used to it before you shoot . rinse out with acetone when your done playing around.

Oh..and after your done flushing the gun with acetone..before you spray your PVA .. Flush the gun with WATER !. Then spray your PVA..then flush it again with WATER...then final flush with acetone. PVA and acetone turns to SNOT .


YD.

I know how its sounds that I know everything ( or a lot ) about gel-coat. .. .. ( I do ).

I know that I may come across that I know A Lot about application, tools and materials ( I do ).

You did not use PVA ..

Its called "grapefruit" peel. ( where your at )

The lowest point in the gel is the thickest of your surface.

If you dont think that the coating is thick enough..then 120G and Blow some more Gel on it..then sand and buff.

Imagine if you had all the spiders and hoses running across some paint job .

YD.

 

[Cadwelder]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

I know how its sounds that I know everything ( or a lot ) about gel-coat. .. .. ( I do ).

I know that I may come across that I know A Lot about application, tools and materials ( I do ).

You did not use PVA ..

Its called "grapefruit" peel. ( where your at )

The lowest point in the gel is the thickest of your surface.

If you dont think that the coating is thick enough..then 120G and Blow some more Gel on it..then sand and buff.

Imagine if you had all the spiders and hoses running across some paint job .

YD.

Or you could have just painted it and been done.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

:
flys, spiders stuck in gel
air hose caught in the wet gel numerous times

Cadwelder: " Or you could have just painted it and been done. "

And done is a matter of "done" when dirt or spiders repel or flies start top off on some good job ? done ?

More work ahead to pass that job off eh ? ..

Reprep..buff those hose lines..or spider repels ??

Good Paint is too expensive to have a backyard boater Try it @ hundreds a Qt per pop ( or are you talking Rusto or something.. ).

Unless you know something I dont...

YD.

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Cheers for the feedback guys, I know many more people are going to say "should have just painted it" or "I told you so"

Paint wasn't really even an option for a number of reasons previously stated on here. Gelcoat was the way to go and believe it or not it still is. I know that if I painted it, it would be "done" by now. but that would mean having to live with the bugs and air hose marks but with this gelcoat the marks/bug can just be sanded straight out.

The only reason this spray job didn't work out as planned was because of lack of experience from me, my main problem was I was so paranoid about the gel kicking in the pot/gun that I had the fluid turned all the way up. Because there was so much fluid being forced out the gun the air at the tip couldn't cope with the atomization. I eventually managed to fine tune the fluid to air ratio for a much finer spray but by this time the damage was done. There was no need for me to be paranoid as I had much more working time with the gel than I thought I would, 15 min later it was still sprayable (1.5% catylist) So if I burn through on the sanding steps and I have to respray it will be a much better job.

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

I know how its sounds that I know everything ( or a lot ) about gel-coat. .. .. ( I do ).

I know that I may come across that I know A Lot about application, tools and materials ( I do ).

You did not use PVA ..

Its called "grapefruit" peel. ( where your at )

The lowest point in the gel is the thickest of your surface.

If you dont think that the coating is thick enough..then 120G and Blow some more Gel on it..then sand and buff.

Imagine if you had all the spiders and hoses running across some paint job .

YD.

although I used wax instead of pva I don't think this would have affected the final result (or would it have?)

I do actually think the gel is thick enough for all the sanding that will need done, I sprayed the gel much thicker to accomodate this because I knew there would be loads of sanding needing done.

Normally I would start at approx 320 grit, but I may go as low as 180g just to knock the high spots down, and as ondarvr suggests I will work on a small area first and complete the process on this area before I attack the rest of the boat.

Cheers YD

 

[bluefishing]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

I am no expert and would of course defer to the yacht dr., ondavr, etc, but couldn't let the gelcoat get tacky, and then use a squeege to fill the low spots? That is of course if you didn't use wax on the final coat. But imagined you didn't use wax, would it make sense for you last coat to be a skim coat?

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

I am no expert and would of course defer to the yacht dr., ondavr, etc, but couldn't let the gelcoat get tacky, and then use a squeege to fill the low spots? That is of course if you didn't use wax on the final coat. But imagined you didn't use wax, would it make sense for you last coat to be a skim coat?

bluefishing

As you know I am by far no expert but If it was unwaxed gel on the final coat then I personally think the squeegy method could work, BUT in doing so it would probably make the gelcoat overall too thick and as gelcoat gets more brittle the thicker it is , this would probably not be advisable. Maybe Yacht Dr. and Ondarvr could give us some input on this.

but either way this is not an option for me as my final coat was waxed, so 24 hours time the sanding continues, how I love sanding (or so it seems)

 

[Cadwelder]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Cadwelder: " Or you could have just painted it and been done. "

And done is a matter of "done" when dirt or spiders repel or flies start top off on some good job ? done ?

More work ahead to pass that job off eh ? ..

Reprep..buff those hose lines..or spider repels ??

Good Paint is too expensive to have a backyard boater Try it @ hundreds a Qt per pop ( or are you talking Rusto or something.. ).

Unless you know something I dont...

YD.

Well certainly not talking about Rusto....you know the paint I use. Yeah it cost a little more, but so does MG plywood yet you use it in lieu of regular exterior plywood, right.

Not going to agrue, but I've had the occasionly fly to buff out, but never had hose lines in my paint, and a few bugs to buff out beats sanding and buffing the whole boat again, or I think so anyway. Hey just my opinion, if ya wanna put the tons of work into using gelcoat, wear it out.

And of course there's nothing I know about a boat finish that you don't already know and better, you said so yourself. "I know how its sounds that I know everything (or a lot) about gel-coat. .. ..(I do)"

 

[ondarvr]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

I am no expert and would of course defer to the yacht dr., ondavr, etc, but couldn't let the gelcoat get tacky, and then use a squeege to fill the low spots? That is of course if you didn't use wax on the final coat. But imagined you didn't use wax, would it make sense for you last coat to be a skim coat?

This can actually work well and is fairly easy to do, you just need to catch it at the right stage of cure if wax has been added.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

I am no expert and would of course defer to the yacht dr., ondavr, etc, but couldn't let the gelcoat get tacky, and then use a squeege to fill the low spots? That is of course if you didn't use wax on the final coat. But imagined you didn't use wax, would it make sense for you last coat to be a skim coat?

Absolutly Not start fillin with a squeege to fill lows while in your spay app. That is what filling and fair is all about LOL.

Let me trick you here..your spraying gel..see them lows..hit them a bit harder on the passes ( trick here ) ... ( sprayable Filler basically ).. Hint..

bluefishing

As you know I am by far no expert but If it was unwaxed gel on the final coat then I personally think the squeegy method could work, BUT in doing so it would probably make the gelcoat overall too thick and as gelcoat gets more brittle the thicker it is , this would probably not be advisable. Maybe Yacht Dr. and Ondarvr could give us some input on this.

but either way this is not an option for me as my final coat was waxed, so 24 hours time the sanding continues, how I love sanding (or so it seems)

This can actually work well and is fairly easy to do, you just need to catch it at the right stage of cure if wax has been added.

Not on full spray .. It is not advisable to start slicking gel before/during a full gel spray..


You need to have your best fair job done with fairing compounds and longboards etc Before you start applying Any coatings..

Imagine your working with Paint..you have NO .. I mean NO chance to go back to your Fill and Fairouts !.

When its time to spay..your Done with the Prep ! I mean DONE !

Paint you cant really go back and fix..Gel you can..so your ok with this gel job. ( As you know its not paint..and its a learning curve as previously stated by you ) .

When its time to Gel or Paint..then its time.. Only when its time.

The fix-it-up after spray is Not a good Idea.. ..

Trust me..

YD.