First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

[fishinfinn]

Re: First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

Out of the Negative there is always some good
Cutting out the old and prepping for the new should be much easier than some of the other memebers have expeienced here
The hull surfaces are smooth so sanding/grinding for reinstall should yield a nice job in the end

The hull has three sets of stringers in it
2 8 ft sections one 12 inches tall and the middle stringer is 13.5 inches tall. 3/4 plywood ....
The third stringer runs from the engine box / bilge to under the cuddy ... following the profile of the hull up to the bottom of the bow
radius.
The box is shot as you can see.

just what I have exposed here shows me about 1/8 of ply left the rest "Boat dung" that just fell out once the foam was removed.
Removing the motor and cleaning it up in the garage is also on the list now ... FOR SURE as
I am sure that the transom will be spongy and wet at the bottom.
Leg ginmbal and motor cleanup and paint before spring appears to be in order now too.

 

[fishinfinn]

Re: First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

This I do find confusiong though

The center section of stringer at the cuddy entrance is only 1/2 " thick ...
and full of boat dung .....

Should I put in a 3/4 stringer or replace in kind ?

 

[fishinfinn]

Re: First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

The one thing I have to be thankful for is that the hull is a solid as it is ...
We were fishing in 150 to 500 ft of water that is fairly cold (50-70F) just a month ago....
IF things had of gone bad it would have been real bad.

The wood that is rotten only left the fiberglass shell intact for support.
The foam is definately not structural.

Back later on once I take the rest of the inards out and
cut the floor up.
and take a few more pics to post here too

 

[fishinfinn]

Re: First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

Okay floor is out now ...

most of the foam is gone
and so far it doesn't look so bad. Other than these stringers

Found my source for MDO G2S ply wood and they also carry Marine grade fir ply as well ....
Contacting the epoxy suppliers this week to get some more info from them and see what they have available for cloth
Found a source for 17 ounce straight Biax with no CSM as From Wha tI have read the CSM is kind of a waste of expoy and not really required like it is with the poly resins.
Also found a 12ox cloth too not a biaxial weave but would be good for capping and possible as an alternate layer when tabbing
I think that a layer of biax and a layer of regular cloth bonded to the hull may yield a good joint as well due to the glass strands
laminated in 4 directions on two different layers.

 

[fishinfinn]

Re: First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

in the engine bay / bilge

The motor mount for the front needs to come out and the main darin runs through the bottom of it.
While at work I will try and find a hoist that will do the task ....
I may use a piece of starboard under the front mount where the plywood shim is now ....
It could be sealed in with that 3m permanent seal 5400 I believe

Curious though .....
On an I/O motor set up is there usually a plywood sole plate glassed in to he bottom of the hull that everything is tied to ?
The glycol on the floor is some antifreeze from the winterization. has a leaky plug in the exhaust manifold when I filled the block.

 

[fishinfinn]

Re: First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

As much as I was in some ways disappointed that I mounted the fishing arch it become a support point for the tarps this year to give me a protected area to work in and the rain and snow out.

The trailer is 4 inch C channel and has full length bunks on it

The hull seems pretty well supported and I am not taking the cap off as I have lots of room
and it will help prevent any twisting too ...

That tarp gets the inside toasty ... haha.... 8 degrees C outside and I was sweating inside ...
Should help when it comes to glassing and foaming in the spring.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

This I do find confusiong though

The center section of stringer at the cuddy entrance is only 1/2 " thick ...
and full of boat dung .....

Should I put in a 3/4 stringer or replace in kind ?

You can make the new stringers any size you want except smaller. 3/4 instead of 1/2" is fine. You can make them 1-1/2" wide if you want.

Demo work is looking good!

 

[fishinfinn]

Re: First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

The drain hole in the floor in the cuddy is a soft spot too... really hoping there that the original stringers are in good shape..... may be hoping for a bit much though. The soft spot is the section of floor that tapers into the bottom of the bow and will be a bit difficult to remove ...
My grinder and a cutting disk will be perfect for this just need to be careful not to cut ito the hull while removing this section.
The fuel tank appears to sit on a sub floor above the drain channel along the keel. the tank was pretty well sealed under the floor and other than dirt seems to be in good shape. Draining and removing will be the next step too.
Removeing the motor providing I can find an A-frame hoist or a cherry picker that will jack it high enough will be on the list as well
then zip cutting the stringer out leaving 1/4" if possible of the tabbing intact so that I can layout and begin the floor plan.

Very tempted to move the batteries forward and build them in just under the dash routing cables under the floor in pvc conduit .
the 2 1200amp batteries weigh in at 150lbs total so this will help get some of the weight shifted forward and make the boat sit more level.
Some fairly light gauge welding cable will carry the current well as to terminal strips at the transom, without much for voltage drop or current loss and I could have the battery switch under the dash

 

[fishinfinn]

Re: First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

Again as mentioned previously it is hoped that the two stringers in the center about 9" either side of the keel are good in the front.
If not, I will have to fab them up from two sections of ply either scarfed or sistered together so that the total length is about 16ft
I did discover upon removing the floor that the two middle stringers run in through the bilge / engine bay to the transom as it sits right now, so I must repeat this in the new sections.

I managed to find a source of 12oz biax without the csm readily available in Canada for about 60% of the cost from anyone else I checked out.... going to call and order about 20yds of it .... forget to check on the 10oz cloth too .... 10 yds of that will need to go on the order.

Calling the supplier about the low viscosity 2 part laminating marine grade epoxy in the next few days to verify shipping and pricing $ 440 for 10 gal kit ... 1:1A/B mix. Thesite says they have an outlet close by in Canada which will keep my shipping/duty/taxes low too. They also sell A non saggin epoxy and a u/v stabilized epoxy which can be tinted one of 4 or 5 colours and used for bottom coating the hull once the floor n stringers are done inside. I may even do the floor (white) with this stuff then the Kiwi (dove gray) grip applied on top. ...

everything going well most of the goodies will be staged and ready once i get some of these pieces out, and the fabrication can begin in the basement.

 

[fishinfinn]

Re: First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

Jign if I seal all the edges and faces good with epoxy and then wrap the stringer with 10 oz cloth they would be sealed enough for installation correct?

If I sand the transom so that the paint is gone and want to core out the wood to verify if it is shot or not how do I go about that ? If it is good then would I use an epoxy filler mixed to PB consistency to fill ?

 

[jigngrub]

Re: First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

Jign if I seal all the edges and faces good with epoxy and then wrap the stringer with 10 oz cloth they would be sealed enough for installation correct?

If I sand the transom so that the paint is gone and want to core out the wood to verify if it is shot or not how do I go about that ? If it is good then would I use an epoxy filler mixed to PB consistency to fill ?

It would be better to install the stringers bare/raw the sawn cut on the bottom will bond better to the adhesive PB. You will seal your stringers when you tab them to the hull. Since you're using epoxy resin you can coat the entire stringer every time you make a layup of tabbing and add an additional coat after you've finished if you want, this will give you 3 or 4 coats of epoxy on your stringers and that's plenty to seal them.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

This drawing (courtesy of woodonglass) will explain better how to glass your stringers in:


1. Bed the stringer to the hull with the PB mix and make you cove fillets.

2. After PB has cured remove braces and clamps from stringer for bedding and do your first layup. Apply resin to the stringer and wait for it to get tacky and then lay the cloth and then apply more resin to wet the cloth out.

3. When first layup gets tacky (not wet) lay more cloth and wet it out.

4. Note how far each layup laps over onto the deck.

5.When layups have cured you can sand lightly with 120 grit and apply another coat of resin for durability.

The air temp in your work area and hardener speed choice will determine how fast the resin tacks, sets, and cures.

Any questions? Does this make sense?

Note: You won't be using poly resin and your wood surface will be smooth so you won't be using the CSM shown in blue.

 

[fishinfinn]

Re: First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

ok that makes sense...

Now the material I am going for is the biax without the csm stitched to the back which is 13.4 oz rating mainly because most epoxy suppliers tend to steer away from csm due to its resin consumption.
Without the csm on the back it may be easier to cover the top of the stringer.

Using the MDO good both sides (scuffed for a good glue bond )gives you the smooth surface that would allow you to eliminate the first CSM layer as woodonglass suggested in the method ... shared above.

Thank you for that dwg wood and jign

Very similar to what i was thinking ..... Will post a pic of what i was thinking tomorrow when i can work from a computer not the tablet ... its
way too hard to draw it neatly on ..

 

[fishinfinn]

Re: First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

Now following along the lines of what you posted and what Woodonglass has shared I drew this up.
slightly different but similar and geared towards epoxy as it eliminates the resin eating CSM common to some types of Biax cloth

The intent should be the same strength wise, due to 3 layers of 13 oz (45/45) biax cloth tabbing the stringer down to the hull
and with two layers capping the stringer the stringer would then be completely encapsulated

I looked at doing it this way because of possible problems with bonding/bubbling during capping of the stringers
and
because I am looking at 5 months of cold weather coming ...
This method would allow me to cut, fit, and cap all of the stringers with cloth and epoxy inside where it is warm.
and shorten the install and finish time in the spring when it warms up.
It is a bit more work doing it this way over all I think but it should help with the installation time later on.

It would however give me a strong bond to the hull and also achieve the 100% seal we are concerned about when it comes to the wooden stringer material.

Thinking about the spacing in between the stringer though ..... 8 to 10 inches .... quite possible to achieve up to 6 layers of 13 oz cloth when doing this ... hull would be as solid as a tank.

I am more worried about not being able to use the boat much next year than the work itself ...

What are your thoughts on this ...

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

Epoxy is much stronger than Poly. Two layers of 13oz biax should be ample for your stringers. I'd change your layup just a bit and have the first tabbing go 3/4 the way up on the stringer and extend 4-6" out onto the hull. Last layer all the way to the top of the stringer and 8-10" out onto the hull. I'd then use a 3-4" strip to cap the tops. Because it's epoxy and biax, IMHO this is good enuf. If you do more, it's ok but costs increase and benefit is not in conjunction with the costs. Again, just my opinion and I am just an...

 

[fishinfinn]

Re: First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

WoG and Jign here is my predicament though with the suggested length of the tabbing as posted.
I took a look at some photos I had on my Phone and roughly estimated the distances between the stringers. These distance are pretty accurate within an inch or so.

As you can see in the sketch they are pretty close together and fairly tall in height
If I tabbed 8-10 inches out on each stringer I would be then tabbing right up on to the next
Over lapping each tabbed layer onto the other between them will however make it solid like a tank
Any suggestions?
I will take the suggestions you give me and sketch it up for comments and discussion.
Thanks guys this is appreciated for sure

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

Tab up the stringer as suggested and out onto the hull with the first tab 1/3 of 1/2 the distance between the stringers. The 2nd and final tabbing should be the full 1/2 distance. Hope that makes sense.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

If it was mine to do it would be done like this:



Once the tabbing is bonded to the hull it becomes part of the hull so tabbing back on top won't hurt anything.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: First boat 1989 Glassmast S187 cuddy restoration

Upon further thought, you may just want to do this in the tight areas:



Probably save you some time and material.