Forward/Reverse backward

[Jacket4life]

I have a 1973 Mercury 500 50 HP outboard motor mounted on a 16' basstracker welded aluminum boat.

I have searched the forum for an answer to this, but didn't come across anything exactly the same.

Problem: Forward and Reverse are backwards. That is to say, when you move the selector forward, the boat goes into reverse, and vice versa. The moter runs excellently, I have full throttle both ways, no other problems.

I have read in a few different places that there is a part in the lower unit that can be installed backward that can cause this. Any confirmation/advice/instruction would be greatly appreciated.

For those who would like to know more:

My father bought this motor originally mounted on a 14' fiberglass narrow hull bass boat (I BELIEVE the brand name was a Bengal?) but it had "stick steer". The boat eventually developed an unstoppable leak, and so he shopped around and bought the basstracker. He and I restored it to a point that were were ready to mount the engine, then took the engine to a marine service outlet. They sold us a used controller (Mercury) and mounted, rigged, and tuned the engine ($600, I felt like that was fair). We retreived the boat, put in, and immediately found this forward/reverse problem. Upon returning, the company wanted $400 to remove the lower unit for a fix, and my dad refused (he felt like that was unfair, and he did not trust their explanation that this was neccessary to fix it). The boat has been like that every since. As I said, it is operable, just a hassle. Now I'd like to sell it, but need to fix this problem, I believe, to maximize my sale. I have checked with several local marine outlets and they vary in their reccomendations (I don't think any of them REALLY know the problem, to be honest), but NONE will give me a flat price, and I am afraid of an "open-ended" deal. I cannot afford them to charge me $500-$1000 to fix it.

For those of you that enjoy laughter at other's expense: I DO know that switching the cables IS NOT the answer, having spent four hours of my life doing that! Could have saved myself a LOT of time by reading ahead and finding out there is a throttle cable and a transmission cable! LOL.

Thanks to everyone for their time, any help is appreciated.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Forward/Reverse backward

Very common problem. The lower shift shaft is not in the correct position. You need to drop the gearcase, adjust the lower shift shaft until forward on the control, puts the motor in forward, and then reinstall the gearcase. Forward is identified when the prop will rachet when turned CW.

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: Forward/Reverse backward

Very common problem. The lower shift shaft is not in the correct position. You need to drop the gearcase, adjust the lower shift shaft until forward on the control, puts the motor in forward, and then reinstall the gearcase. Forward is identified when the prop will rachet when turned CW.

Wow. You sound really knowledgeable. Any chance you live in my area and will come by and help me do it??? I'll buy the beer!! LOL.

O.K., If I understand correctly, I need to drop the lower unit (which I have to do anyway, I have to replace the impeller, any advice on that would be hepful too!) which IS the gearcase? Or do I do something additional AFTER I drop the lower unit? I will be buying a shop manual before I attempt this, since I've never done it. I'm sure that will help alot.

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: Forward/Reverse backward

Also, any general estimate on the value of this motor? Since I have had it at the house, I've had two people inquire about buying it, trying to get an idea of the value of the motor. Apparently they are much preferred over the newer type Mercury motors? Thanks for the input!

 

[gejandsons]

Re: Forward/Reverse backward

the water pump impellor will be on top of the gear case not in it. Dropping the lower unit will usually involve removing 3 or 4 bolts that are visible & one usually hidden under the trim tab. I shift the motor into forward gear before dropping the lower unit. when you get resady to reinstall you can turn the prop to realign the splines on the drive shaft. In your case if you shift into forward on the control it will be reverse on the foot. You will then know the direction to move it before reassembling.

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: Forward/Reverse backward

the water pump impellor will be on top of the gear case not in it. Dropping the lower unit will usually involve removing 3 or 4 bolts that are visible & one usually hidden under the trim tab. I shift the motor into forward gear before dropping the lower unit. when you get resady to reinstall you can turn the prop to realign the splines on the drive shaft. In your case if you shift into forward on the control it will be reverse on the foot. You will then know the direction to move it before reassembling.

So, am I right in not attempting this until I get a manual? And is the SELOC manual the best available?

Sounds like I drop the lower unit, then remove stuff from on top of it? Or does the unit split into further pieces after it is off? And then I believe you're saying since mine is backwards, I'll be in reverse coming off (at the foot), and I need to adjust the "lower shift shaft" until I have the gearing "reversed" from its present configuration (like chris was saying), and when I go to put it back I can verify by spinning the prop CW and should hear it clicking? Sorry to sound like a simpleton, but I have ZERO experience with the lower unit.

Also, in addition to the impeller, should I perform some other maintenance/replacement stuff that is easier to do while I have it off?

Thanks again for the input.

 

[gejandsons]

Re: Forward/Reverse backward

some searching on the net will yield rewards. see the attached

http://www.sterndrive.info/mercury-outboard-parts/50hp_55hp_60hp_drawings.html

I can'y advise on waiting, getting a manual or not, etc because I don't know your abilities.

Removing the lower unit requires a very small amount of skill & some common sense.

Ther are people on here to help if you can explain in a matter they can understand.

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: Forward/Reverse backward

some searching on the net will yield rewards. see the attached

http://www.sterndrive.info/mercury-outboard-parts/50hp_55hp_60hp_drawings.html

I can'y advise on waiting, getting a manual or not, etc because I don't know your abilities.

Removing the lower unit requires a very small amount of skill & some common sense.

Ther are people on here to help if you can explain in a matter they can understand.

I thought you checked common sense in at the door when you BOUGHT a boat! LOL!
I'm gonna buy the manual. What the hell, I'll throw it in on the deal when I sell the damn thing! What's the old saying? The second best day of a man's life is the day he buys a boat, the best day is the day he sells it?!?!?!
Seriously, I am so glad to find a place where everyone can beat their head on the wall together! You few guys that have all this experience, IDK why ya'll are here except for the laughs!
There is a lot of satisfaction, though, in fixing something for yourself!
I'll let ya'll know how it goes for me!
Thanks for all the help so far! Keep it coming.

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: Forward/Reverse backward

O.K. Got my Service Manual ordered, supposed to be here tomorrow. NOW, before I read it and tackle removing my lower unit, is there any kind of gasket kit, seal kit, etc, etc, I should need to replace in the Lower Unit? And is there any service/preventative maintenace I should be doing while I'm in there? (EX: Should I be changing the oil in the lower unit at this time? Is it neccessary or easier to do while I have the Lower Unit off?) I am already going to replace the impeller, and I have it on hand. Any other input/advice would be appreciated! Thanks!

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Forward/Reverse backward

Gear oil may be changed 1/year. Twice is better. It is harder if the gearcase is off. Make sure to use new gaskets, impeller and wear plate during waterpump repair. Set the motor into neutral before removing gearcase. Grease driveshaft and shift shaft splines before reassembly. Gearcase fit will be tight. Try to wiggle it into place w/o using tools.

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: Forward/Reverse backward

Thanks, Chris, I appreciate it.

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: Forward/Reverse backward

O.K. Got my manual today (Yay!!) Now I'm ignorant with the possibility of just upgrading straight to stupid!

Here's what I THINK needs to happen. First off, I FEEL LIKE am pretty comfortable with getting the lower unit off/on, assuming I don't hit any of the snags that seem common (water oulet tube staying in lower unit, driveshaft refusing to part, etc...)

I also FEEL LIKE I will be able to tackle the impeller replacement. I am a little concerned about the wear plate, in my book it says it sometimes is hard to remove, but, cross that bridge...

Anyhow, here's what I THINK needs to happen with the shift issue, what I'd like is if some of you educated guys can decipher my ignorance and tell me if I'm going the right direction idea-wise. I THINK I need to shift into forward (which right now is reverse at my controller) drop the unit, complete my impeller fix, then, before re-assembly of the lower unit to the drive shaft housing, turn the lower shift shaft from where it IS (in reverse) to the OPPOSITE, which would be forward, then re-install. First off, is this AT ALL correct? Second question I have: is there a way, when looking down at the shift shaft, to know WHICH way to turn it? I have read that I will have to turn it with a set of pliers with a rag/towel, so I assume you have to twist pretty hard, I don't want to be twisting the crap out of it the wrong way for nothing! I am aware from you guys' comments as well as from reading my manual that I can check the gear I am in by turning the drive shaft clockwise and watching the prop shaft. If you turn clockwise on the drive shaft and the prop shaft turns clockwise, you are in forward, correct? I know this is stupid, probably, but reverse is turn the driveshaft CLOCKWISE, and the prop shaft turns COUNTER-clockwise, right? (I know, I know, newbie!)

If I am right in my thought process, then when I re-install, my shifter will be in reverse, and the lower unit will be in reverse, and all will be back right with the world (hopefully!), but what concerns me is getting it all back that way, and then I can't shift at all. Maybe it is just my nervousness and inexperience.

If I am screwed up in my thinking, someone PLEASE tell me before I tackle this!!! I can't start on it until midweek next week because of work, so I have some time if you guys will offer any input. Thanks again!!

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Forward/Reverse backward

Removing wear plate is easy. Waterpump base removal (if necessary) is more difficult.

I recommend you set the motor to neutral, and then drop the gearcase, and repair the waterpump.

Now the tricky part. I have done this, but forget exactly which way I turned the shift shaft. You need to turn the shift shaft past forward or reverse (I forget which one) to get to neutral. Do it gently, and you will be OK.

The shifter is correct when it shifts CW to forward. Right now you shift CW into reverse.

 

[turtles11756]

Re: Forward/Reverse backward

your in the same spot i was in last year this time. you know what to do just never did it .the only way to learn is do it .if you have any problems the guys here will help you thru it and they are GOOD. you have the shift shaft down pat .make SURE the water tube is right as well as the impeller (greased) in it's housing . don't force anything back together when it's right it will come back together with hand pressure alone. don't lose the little keyway when you remove old impeller

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: Forward/Reverse backward

Removing wear plate is easy. Waterpump base removal (if necessary) is more difficult.

I recommend you set the motor to neutral, and then drop the gearcase, and repair the waterpump.

Now the tricky part. I have done this, but forget exactly which way I turned the shift shaft. You need to turn the shift shaft past forward or reverse (I forget which one) to get to neutral. Do it gently, and you will be OK.

The shifter is correct when it shifts CW to forward. Right now you shift CW into reverse.

So, just to make sure I am smelling you, you are saying it will turn COMPLETELY 180 degrees, right? So if I start in neutral, IYO, I can spin it all the way around to nuetral 180 degrees around. then when I reinstall, I'll (theoretically) be copasetic.

BTW, thanks for your time.

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: Forward/Reverse backward

your in the same spot i was in last year this time. you know what to do just never did it .the only way to learn is do it .if you have any problems the guys here will help you thru it and they are GOOD. you have the shift shaft down pat .make SURE the water tube is right as well as the impeller (greased) in it's housing . don't force anything back together when it's right it will come back together with hand pressure alone. don't lose the little keyway when you remove old impeller

Yeah, I know. Can' tell you how much I have been dreading this though. Of course, the mysterious is almost always worse than reality!

Thanks for the advice on the impeller drive key. My book says the exact same thing!

Also have heard repeatedly on here not to force the re-install. At this point, my only REAL fear is that it won't come off easily/immediately. But, what the hell, I'm going with Churchill on this whole deal. Chunking fear out the window and going for it!



Next Week. LOL!

 

[achris]

Re: Forward/Reverse backward

You said the engine came back from the installer with the forward/reverse problem, and that they fitted a new control box....

Some people may not be aware that some control boxes have 2 anchor points for each of the shift and throttle cables. You use one of the anchor points depending on whether the cable needs to be pushed or pull for the required function.

This leads me to think a bad thought.... It is conceivably possible that the installer put the cable on the wrong anchor point accidentally.... and having realized that, is now 'milking' you....

To check if the cable is moving the right way, pop the cover off the engine and look at the gear shift cable... It will be in the 'neutral' position... Move the gear lever forward (towards the bow) then check the cable again. It should also have moved forward. If it moved back, the control box is set up wrong....

Chris........

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: Forward/Reverse backward

You said the engine came back from the installer with the forward/reverse problem, and that they fitted a new control box....

Some people may not be aware that some control boxes have 2 anchor points for each of the shift and throttle cables. You use one of the anchor points depending on whether the cable needs to be pushed or pull for the required function.

This leads me to think a bad thought.... It is conceivably possible that the installer put the cable on the wrong anchor point accidentally.... and having realized that, is now 'milking' you....

To check if the cable is moving the right way, pop the cover off the engine and look at the gear shift cable... It will be in the 'neutral' position... Move the gear lever forward (towards the bow) then check the cable again. It should also have moved forward. If it moved back, the control box is set up wrong....

Chris........

I started out with the control box being my culprit. The installer sold us the control box and mounted the motor, rigged the box, etc. I have taken the control box apart on the advice of others looking for an alternate anchor point, but with this controller, I don't see that option. I will DEFINITELY take your advice, though and check the cable at the engine tomorrow morning. Are you saying the CABLE should slide forward, or the shifter that it controls in the power head should rotate forward? Sorry, I am still trying to learn! Thanks for your input!

The installer blamed it on that the motor had been mounted on a boat with a non-mercury controller, and he theorized they changed the shift at the lower unit to make that controller work...BS??? IDK, I don't know enough about outboards/boats to know! Just know he wanted another $350 to remove the lower unit and fix it. My Dad refused, so here I am!

BTW, I was told by one dealer to just bring the boat in, that I needed a new controller. They gave me an ESTIMATE of $550 to install one (that included a new controller, their quote for it was $325.) I can't spend that kind of money on this boat! I'd rather just take the hit on resale value than do that.

 

[achris]

Re: Forward/Reverse backward

.... Are you saying the CABLE should slide forward, or the shifter that it controls in the power head should rotate forward? ....

2 cables go into the engine. Both go in on the starboard side of the engine, one above the other. The top one is the throttle cable, the bottom one the shift cable.

With the control in neutral, look at the end of the shift cable (where it is in the slider) and note where it is. Push the control box lever to what would normally be forward (towards the front of the boat) and check the new position of the end of the shift cable. It SHOULD also move towards the front of the boat.... (you may need someone to turn the prop while you move the control lever.)

Chris......

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: Forward/Reverse backward

Will recheck it in the A.M. Thanks for the advice.