How long at WOT?

Philster

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Re: How long at WOT?

OK then if the vehicle is a boat, assuming a planing hull and efficiency is the goal, then just onto an efficient plane is the best, no matter what the RPM is.

In a wheeled vehicle it is 58 - 62 MPH and smallest engine, highest gear = most wide open throttle.

No no no! People don't use their vehicles this way! That's the whole point.
 

QC

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Re: How long at WOT?

We were talking about air sir . . .

For clarity, my point was proper use of the word "Throttle". When discussing Lambda it's pretty important.
 

QC

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Re: How long at WOT?

No no no! People don't use their vehicles this way! That's the whole point.
What people don't? You do if you have an automatic transmission and you are ever forced to run those speeds . . . ;)

In a marine application people do if they have a fuel flow meter and their goal is maximum fuel efficiency, not time to distance.
 

Philster

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Re: How long at WOT?

And are we stuck on modern diesels that now have throttles that do limit air?
 

QC

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Re: How long at WOT?

No. Not in use for air. Most modern diesel are using SCR for emission control. Navistar has an EGR throttle. I am not sure about light duty, but most are SCR so a throttle would be bad. I'll double check with our development engineers if that is a question.
 

Philster

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Re: How long at WOT?

What people don't? You do if you have an automatic transmission and you are ever forced to run those speeds . . . ;)

In a marine application people do if they have a fuel flow meter and their goal is maximum fuel efficiency, not time to distance.

I think you're contradicting yourself, but I have to sign off in five mins!
 

Philster

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Re: How long at WOT?

No. Not in use for air. Most modern diesel are using SCR for emission control. Navistar has an EGR throttle. I am not sure about light duty, but most are SCR so a throttle would be bad. I'll double check with our development engineers if that is a question.

Brotha, it's about restricting air flow, which has a domino effect that leads to the ultimate desired effect.
 

QC

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Re: How long at WOT?

Huh? ^^^^^^ Hmmm. Hijack complete. Sorry all . . . :redface:
 

Philster

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Re: How long at WOT?

No highjacks have occurred. I am trying to answer the OP's question.

Is it more likely the OP meant 100% open throttle or 100% open throttle, running all out at the top speed the boat can offer? It's likely the latter. Unnecessary diversion has taken place. So, since we are talking about boats, my premise is more accurate: WOT = as fast as she is going to go, which is max engine RPM +/-

Diesels: Sorry you were caught trying to explain your claim that diesels don't have throttles. Modern diesels sometimes have throttles to control air intake, which is to manage combustion to another end in the interest of emissions control. Again, I'm not the one diverting attention with discussion of diesels throttles. The OP surely means all out top speed. The diesel diversion does not help here.

Most efficient operation = full throttle is yet another diversion. Full throttle in a gas operated boat engine in the real world does not equal maximum efficiency.

Carbed, two-stroke engines can run lean. I don''t know how the heck anyone lost the ability to understand that no matter what the settings are going in on any engine, the air/fuel mixture is subject to more dynamics than just 'it can't run lean, because fuel intake is a product of air intake.' In that case, how can any engine run lean or rich? For Pete's sake, the air temps and humidity levels and other factors (some will even say fuel temps) can change the air/fuel mix. An engine can run rich or lean in the same day and what the engine is doing at different times under different circumstances will even affect it. It's more dynamic that anyone is admitting. It's so dynamic that computer controls making thousands of adjustments per second are needed to manage it. On 2-stroke engines with carbs, the tune to slightly rich allows some room for error that invariably pops up during operation.

Full, all-out 100% speed from a wide-open throttle is worse than something less the 100% all out (Frank A and I explained a little of this). The margin of how much worse doesn't get too serious unless you can run, particularly a 4-stroke engine, at the absolute RPM limit it can operate at before bad, engine-damaging things occur (at this practical limit, the engine can experience moments of bad stuff).

If your engine is designed to run at 4800 RPM and wide open throttle finds you at 4600 RPM, you aren't running on the edge of disaster. If your running at 4800 RPM, it is more likely that you are occasionally dipping into the realm of where some bad things might happen to some engines.
 

90stingray

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Re: How long at WOT?

True. I was always conservative when I flew so I always followed the guidlines my instructors taught me.

Did you know that aircraft carb engines, the last end of the throttle does not change the rpm? Why... because of a power enrichment valve that actually richens the mixture to help cool the engine. I knew of some backing the throttle back to the 4/5 position because they said the rpm never changed so why have it full throttle. They didn't know it was actually causing more damage at that position than full balls to the wall :)
 

haulnazz15

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Re: How long at WOT?

Did you know that aircraft carb engines, the last end of the throttle does not change the rpm? Why... because of a power enrichment valve that actually richens the mixture to help cool the engine. I knew of some backing the throttle back to the 4/5 position because they said the rpm never changed so why have it full throttle. They didn't know it was actually causing more damage at that position than full balls to the wall :)

Lets not get into a discussion of rich of peak (ROP) and lean of peak (LOP) operation of aircraft engines, lol. Even in the aviation industry you have a dozen-page thread arguing it back and forth! While we can say "engines are engines", the Lycoming and Continental engines are about as similar to a modern 2-stroke as a diamond is to coal.
 

bruceb58

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Re: How long at WOT?

Did you know that aircraft carb engines, the last end of the throttle does not change the rpm? Why... because of a power enrichment valve that actually richens the mixture to help cool the engine. I knew of some backing the throttle back to the 4/5 position because they said the rpm never changed so why have it full throttle. They didn't know it was actually causing more damage at that position than full balls to the wall :)
You fly? Every plane I ever flew had manual mixture control and many had exhaust and head temp gauges where we adjusted the manual mixture controls to compensate for altitude. That was normal procedure to adjust mixture once we had the throttle set and were at our cruising altitude.
 

bruceb58

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Re: How long at WOT?

Lets not get into a discussion of rich of peak (ROP) and lean of peak (LOP) operation of aircraft engines, lol. Even in the aviation industry you have a dozen-page thread arguing it back and forth! While we can say "engines are engines", the Lycoming and Continental engines are about as similar to a modern 2-stroke as a diamond is to coal.
Especially since they are 4 stroke engines.

No highjacks have occurred. I am trying to answer the OP's question.
The OP doesn't have 2-stroke engines. The OP has all 4 strokes in his signature. I think the hijack started at post #10. :)
 

Home Cookin'

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Re: How long at WOT?

you all forget that the higher the fewer, the greater the perlicity. General Mayhem drilled this into his Kyber Pass drivers serving in the British Thermal Unit.

Any thread worth replying to is worth hijacking. Especially the ones that start with an open-ended question--it seems to be the season for that:
"Do I need a motor?"
"what's the best motor?"
"will it be too cold this weekend?"
"Looking for a boat 17-28' long--what should I get?"
"Do I need bottom paint?"
 

Philster

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Re: How long at WOT?

Especially since they are 4 stroke engines.

The OP doesn't have 2-stroke engines. The OP has all 4 strokes in his signature. I think the hijack started at post #10. :)

Slow day at work for me. :p
 

bruceb58

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Re: How long at WOT?

Nope. Just an A&P. I don't leave the ground :)
LOL...then you should already know the answer to your original question!

Do you not leave the ground because you work on them? Just kidding! :)
 

90stingray

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Re: How long at WOT?

LOL...then you should already know the answer to your original question! )

Well I was just trying to see what people's comfort levels were with their machines. No right or wrong answer...
 

haulnazz15

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Re: How long at WOT?

You fly? Every plane I ever flew had manual mixture control and many had exhaust and head temp gauges where we adjusted the manual mixture controls to compensate for altitude. That was normal procedure to adjust mixture once we had the throttle set and were at our cruising altitude.

Another difference I left out, was yes, the mixture control which most marine engines don't have. There are newer FADEC aircraft systems though which remove the mixture control from the equation. Obviously the turbine guys don't have to mess with mixture, either. I have to trust that 90StingRay did his job right despite staying on the ground, lol.
 
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