Inboard outboard air cooled engine

[MikDee]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Right On!!! I like the whole concept, good idea with the springs, & washers, that will tend to keep the shift handle on center at all times,,, Bravo!

 

[maxum247]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Ok! Next step, in this picture of riding lawn mower parts lies my shift arm/handle assembly. Now to weed thru and decide what to use! Let's see what comes out of it!

 

[Lone Duck]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Ok! Next step, in this picture of riding lawn mower parts lies my shift arm/handle assembly. Now to weed thru and decide what to use! Let's see what comes out of it!

(1) take 4th rod down from top of pic. Put through side of box and build a cam on end.

(2) take 6th rod down from topand bend it to a right angle and hook between springs and washers on shift rod in L U .run it through a length of pipe down to cam. C am will give a straight lift on L U shift rod. Notch cam for your 3 shift positions.
Hmmmm! Need a spring off of a valve or such to force it back down or one to pull it back down. Oh well I tried . Your just teasing us now.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Don't over think this...see my simple 'lever"..or ya gonna lose me..(theres a lot of "give' on that shaft...still like yer idea..)
Problem I see is what you think here, going into neutral... will not...it will bounce it over center, and now its either either forward, or reverse, and neutral will be hell to find..if not impossible..(real "dockbuster")
You need a solid shift, with a linkage with solid F/N/R "detents"...

 

[MikDee]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Don't over think this...see my simple 'lever"..or ya gonna lose me..(theres a lot of "give' on that shaft...still like yer idea..)
Problem I see is what you think here, going into neutral... will not...it will bounce it over center, and now its either either forward, or reverse, and neutral will be hell to find..if not impossible..(real "dockbuster")
You need a solid shift, with a linkage with solid F/N/R "detents"...

Detents needed? Yes, maybe so,,, I see what you mean, if there's no detent in the shift rod already as it comes out of the LU ???

So, if he removes the springs, & replaces them with solid spacers, so that there's no slop, or sliding movement between the shift shaft, and the long shifter rod,,, or just removes it all, and uses an eyebolt, or swivel (ball joint) here, then maybe he can put sideways slots in the side of the wooden box, to slip the end of the rod into, & rest it there, as detents.

Either way he's usually not online till the early evening here EST, after work.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Actually, I think theres a good possibility it will work as is. Looks good my end. A lot depends on the gear box, and the pivots points of the shifter. Once together, one will know.
Easy to add a piece of bed frame (I grab that stuff much as I can..people throw it away..NO..I WANT IT!)..with some notch's cut in, added later on the outside.. the shift lever side to side "give" enough to move from one notch to another.
Reason I bring this up, is I had a 20hp 80's Johnson. Had a Tee handle in front of the motor for shift. Lotta slop. Hard as I tried, Reverse to neutral was not done very easy. Always wanted to go all the way into forward, then had to kick it back for neutral.
Anyway, on the idea now, just go for it..looking good!

 

[MikDee]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Yes, I agree it depends on the pivot points?, the space, & movement, between the springs may even need to be shortened some? just speculating here. The notched (bedframe) metal detent sounds like a good idea also.

 

[maxum247]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Detents needed? Yes, maybe so,,, I see what you mean, if there's no detent in the shift rod already as it comes out of the LU ???

So, if he removes the springs, & replaces them with solid spacers, so that there's no slop, or sliding movement between the shift shaft, and the long shifter rod,,, or just removes it all, and uses an eyebolt, or swivel (ball joint) here, then maybe he can put sideways slots in the side of the wooden box, to slip the end of the rod into, & rest it there, as detents.

Either way he's usually not online till the early evening here EST, after work.

The three detent notches are inside the lower unit housing, has a spring type lever that rest in the notches to hold the shift lever in place so that it won't kick out of gear, sorry I hadn't mentioned that earlier on, but didn't think of it until I saw this post.

My hinge idea wasn't working out, not enough room, or energy on my part!
I used an eye bolt fastened to the angle iron as a pivot point, I doubled the springs top and bottom to get the tension that was needed, one inside the other so there are four springs total. Too weak if I used one spring top and one bottom! It works pretty good. But I did buy the sleeves today to replace the springs just in case I need them. Also bought some of the items needed to built the shifter the way Scaaty proposed just in case this fails! Don't know what is going to happen when I connect the shift handle, so I'm still a little shakey wether or not what I have will work in the end, if all else fails I'll leave it the way it is in the picture and put a handle on it and call it good. "Designing the shift lever did just about get me the white coat!" Just couldn't grasp the concept, talk about over thinking! Man I'm beat after this one!

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Myself, I think that pivot/hinge is way to far away. I'm thinking only a few inches, as the shift rod only needs 1/2 inch up/down. Then the shifter can control it easier..(the Fulcrum thing)
But whats nice here, is it can be checked pretty easy, long before the motor covers it all up. Ya don't need water, as no pump involved. Just try it, while someone spins the prop.
That gearbox..(EDIT....ignore the rest, we posted about the same time, and the gerbox has detents..) only has a sliding clutch dog, run off the shift fork. There is nothing in there to stop it (in the way of detents) from going from F to R, or vice versa, as the stock gearshift (with motor) has that somehow figured in the linkage off the side shift handle.
The springs a good idea, but it will just help the shift to continue all the way, neutral passed up. Needs to be more solid of connection, hence, a short pivot, detents of some sort on the handle.
Recently did a Tohatsu 5hp gearcase rebuild. It had an inside the driveshaft rod, spring loaded, with detents, that held in in gear...can't remember much more on it, but it was a way different case.
Anyway, it can be figured out in this case...(pun intended I guess!)

 

[maxum247]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Myself, I think that pivot/hinge is way to far away. I'm thinking only a few inches, as the shift rod only needs 1/2 inch up/down. Then the shifter can control it easier..(the Fulcrum thing)
But whats nice here, is it can be checked pretty easy, long before the motor covers it all up. Ya don't need water, as no pump involved. Just try it, while someone spins the prop.
That gearbox only has a sliding clutch dog, run off the shift fork. There is nothing in there to stop it (in the way of detents) from going from F to R, or vice versa, as the stock gearshift (with motor) has that somehow figured in the linkage off the side shift handle.
The springs a good idea, but it will just help the shift to continue all the way, neutral passed up. Needs to be more solid of connection, hence, a short pivot, detents of some sort on the handle.
Recently did a Tohatsu 5hp gearcase rebuild. It had an inside the driveshaft rod, spring loaded, with detents, that held in in gear...can't remember much more on it, but it was a way different case.
Anyway, it can be figured out in this case...(pun intended I guess!)

The shifter did jump from forward to reverse until I installed the eye bolt, that took care of it. The detents are built in the lower unit on this one with a spring strap, notch in shift shaft, have to take unit apart to see it! The hinge was way too far away Scaaty, your right!

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

, left the springs. It works pretty good. But I did buy the sleeves today to replace the springs just in case I need them.

Not needed..just tighten up the nuts on the springs
Don't worry to much about trashing the shift seal on side/side/move...whatever. No pressure in the case, no water involved, and see no problem with it pushing out oil, even if the seal gets trashed.
Non event.
Didn't know what case you were using, so thats problem solved.
Now, ya need to move the eyebolt in closer...get a better "lever" effect.
You are on the right track. and ya doing DAMN good on the "thinking!. Proud of ya!
I will have to post a pic later when back in the house of when I started the Dragbike .. frame sitting on a box, front end on..thats good, a poster board full size cut out of a Harley Sportster motor..in the living room blocking the fireplace for a month...ashtray fulla cigarettes..hmmm, ..how the hell am I gonna DO THIS! (God, talk about BRAIN OVERLOAD!).
Yer doing fine so far....again, this is a project you remember for life

 

[maxum247]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Not needed..just tighten up the nuts on the springs
Don't worry to much about trashing the shift seal on side/side/move...whatever. No pressure in the case, no water involved, and see no problem with it pushing out oil, even if the seal gets trashed.
Non event.
Didn't know what case you were using, so thats problem solved.
Now, ya need to move the eyebolt in closer...get a better "lever" effect.
You are on the right track. and ya doing DAMN good on the "thinking!. Proud of ya!
I will have to post a pic later when back in the house of when I started the Dragbike .. frame sitting on a box, front end on..thats good, a poster board full size cut out of a Harley Sportster motor..in the living room blocking the fireplace for a month...ashtray fulla cigarettes..hmmm, ..how the hell am I gonna DO THIS! (God, talk about BRAIN OVERLOAD!).
Yer doing fine so far....again, this is a project you remember for life

You read my mind, my next question was about the pressure in the lower unit and if it were to leak would it blow the oil out? I beleive I under stand that there tested pumped up to 15psi and vacumed tested at the same psi, two part test, that sound right?

 

[MikDee]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Hey, It looks good to me! Whatever works for you, but remember in my PM I said that if you put the pivot (fulcrum) in the middle it would be balanced, & the movement, & force needed to shift, would measure the same on both ends, moving it closer to the S. shaft, the handle would have to move more on the end, but need less effort, moving it further away from the S. shaft the handle would move less, but need more effort. If you know what I mean?
You have to determine what works better for you. Still you might need a slotted (detent-holder) on the handle end, to keep it from moving around.

 

[maxum247]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Hey, It looks good to me! Whatever works for you, but remember in my PM I said that if you put the pivot (fulcrum) in the middle it would be balanced, & the movement, & force needed to shift, would measure the same on both ends, moving it closer to the S. shaft, the handle would have to move more on the end, but need less effort, moving it further away from the S. shaft the handle would move less, but need more effort. If you know what I mean?
You have to determine what works better for you. Still you might need a slotted (detent-holder) on the handle end, to keep it from moving around.

Been thinking about the slotted detent at the handle today! Think I can whip something up for that when the time comes.

 

[maxum247]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

I'm jumping ahead a little! Here are a couple pictures of the exhaust, before and present, not finished just mocked up so that you get an idea. I better mention that I will need some different pipe lengths to get clearance off the hull, used what I had to give an idea of the over the stern exhausht! Ok here we go!

First: I don't like it!

Second: It's in the way!

Third: I know that I will end up branded if I put it there!

Fourth: I just don,t like it!

Fifth: Through the stern it tucks up nice and neat under the motor with plenty of clearance and the muffler will be outside the boat, down behind the stern out of the way, and still be far enough above the water not to be a problem, and hopefully be quite!
Is there a solid reason why the exhausht should not go thru the stern with the proper clearance, other than the fact that there will be a hole thru the stern about two inches down from the top? Not concerned about the hole being there, but don't want to burn the boat up after all this work! Nothing but the rudder and a trolling motor will be back there, not too worried about the strength of the stern. If for some reason I change out to an outboard in the future I can patch the hole! Worked in a few boat shops over the years.

The pipe used is 1 1/4 in. O.D. How big should the hole be to keep things at the stern cool? Any idea's? Thanks in advance for any suggestions as to why or why not! maxum247

 

[Lone Duck]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

exhaust:
well I'm not sure, I would think 11/2 " clearance should work. How would you stabilize it? Maybe cover the hole you make with a piece of screen or expanded metal with a hole in the centre to hold the pipe in place. The air going through would help dissipate the heat. Much like a wood stove handle. Your pic looks ugly. Funny, in my mind it didn't .

 

[Lone Duck]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

I forgot to mention to remember to stay clear of where your tiller hardware is going to go. Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

You read my mind, my next question was about the pressure in the lower unit and if it were to leak would it blow the oil out? I beleive I under stand that there tested pumped up to 15psi and vacumed tested at the same psi, two part test, that sound right?

No..zero pressure involved..just the surrounding water pressure.... with half azz good seals....non event...ya aint letting it sit in the water in a slip anyway..top shift seal not a prob, ..just good D/S seals..
I do lowers at 5lbs..holds an hour.. good'nuff...
It would just mix up milky if a leaker..
I would not worry about it at the moment much at all..and it will run darn near dry for hours anyway..just check after a good run..(lets get that part done first!)

 

[MikDee]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

IMO, The exhaust, Why don't you just get a bit longer pipe nipple for the middle, and just put it there for now, and see how it all works out. You can always change it later, it shouldn't be too hard to do. Besides keep your hands out of there! There's no reason for your hands to be near it, or build a round louvered sheet metal shield to put over it.

I don't like the idea of putting a hot dry exhaust thru the hull, but if you must, I'd suggest either an 1 1/2", or 2" I.D. Ceramic, or metal pipe, fastened to the hull, as a sleeve for the exhaust to go thru, to try and insulate the transom material from the heat.

Here's another crazy idea, put the exhaust straight up into the air, then put a 90* elbow on the top, facing backward with a short nipple, & muffler, the wind passing over it at high speed WOT should help cool it down, and you could use it as a flagpole, or a mast for a sail too

 

[maxum247]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

exhaust:
well I'm not sure, I would think 11/2 " clearance should work. How would you stabilize it? Maybe cover the hole you make with a piece of screen or expanded metal with a hole in the centre to hold the pipe in place. The air going through would help dissipate the heat. Much like a wood stove handle. Your pic looks ugly. Funny, in my mind it didn't .

Hard as that stuff screws together I don't think I've got to worry about it loosening up! But I was wondering if there is a thread sealent that could be used to help hold it in place that will take the heat and still be able to remove it, just to be sure!