Is this the future of towing??

[QC]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

Thank you, yes.. basically my thoughts.

Well . . . pretty funny as I took them 180 degrees the other way . . .

Neither of you guys has been around since we allowed political discussion, and accordingly would not know my leanings, especially on this specific topic. I should probably share that I have been selling heavy-duty diesels my entire 30+ year career and that I now sell low-emission fuel systems for trucks and mega catalysts for mega engines. With that said, I think man made GW is little more than an egotistical wish. Hopefully you get a chuckle out of how you interpreted my postition from my question LOL

Will we have tow vehicle options available to us that are capable of pulling our 8,000 lb boats? That's a concern to me.

This is where I still trust our market economy. Tow ratings have been on the rise forever and this indusry has been under an onslaught of emission regulation for 50 years. I remain confident that vehicles will continue to be available, but that doesn't mean we should be complacent.

Finally, the reason I posted an inquiry into the Obama refernce was actually to squelch any politics in this combustible thread. Shows how good I am at that

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

Sorry, I'm not speculating. Read the news. When I get a chance, I'll pull up some news articles for you.

I read plenty of news:
GM's Arlington plant to start SUV production again
02:19 PM CDT on Sunday, July 12, 2009

By TERRY BOX / The Dallas Morning News
tbox@dallasnews.com
After two months of silence, sparks will fly again Monday at the General Motors Assembly Plant in Arlington.

The factory's 2,400 workers will come to work for the first time since May 18, welding and bolting together Chevrolet Tahoe, GMC Yukon and Cadillac Escalade SUVs.

 

[wajajaja02]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

2k vw tdi does 47 plus mpg, and can do 80ph, my 95 gmc burb diesel does 23mpg hwy, tows 9k boat, no sweat and I have to be careful not to speed , catch myself over 80 all the time.

 

[triumphrick]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

Man Ian, I wish I could tell you. I'm also "in line" if they produce it.

It has been shelved "until the economic climate changes." No joke. That's almost verbatum their verbage.

Ford is in the best position to do it.. But as you said, management seems to think otherwise. Ford will miss the boat on Diesel engines, just like they missed the boat on hybrids.. And believe me, that's not the first time I've said that to folks.. Including higher ups in Ford.

Dude...you're a Ford insider and you think that they have missed the boat on hybrids?? Look, I own two Toyotas. Combined mileage 221,000. Brakes and tires on both vehicles has been the only expense. That's how cars and trucks should be built.
However, Ford comes along with a Fusion Hybrid that leads domestic manufacturers in reliability. Their Escape Hybrid has also been much improved and it too has shown initial customer satisfaction ratings higher than Toyota. I think theirs is the highest mileage compact suv..Looks to me they are on the right track. I don't see anything missed by Ford.

I also kinda like the fact they aren't standing in that line getting a government bail out.

A few less naysayers and some more of the positives, please.

And hope that Toyota doesn't bring a diesel option here for the Tacoma or Tundra for the domestic automakers sake.....

 

[APPALOOSA2]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

You wont need much to tow a 20 foot inflatable that fits in the hatchback to the lake in the future, just a lot of air !

 

[scipper77]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

2010 subaru forester diesel is rated to tow 4400. yes, short of a ranger, but still respectable.

I did not know this! That puts the forester to the top of my list if I was looking to buy a car today. How funny would it look to see someone towing a 3000 lb boat with a subaru forester..lol

Seems to be a poor decision at any rate. There has to be more to this then marketing managers regurgitating previous managers concerns about bringing deisels to north america. It seems like a no brainer to me, and many many people that I talk to. Heck, even around here people often wonder why deisel I/O's aren't available. I just don't get it, and it stinks.

Ian

I agree, A poor decision. Ford has put themselves in a good position by being a conservative car maker (compared to GM and Chrysler). I think they will do pretty well once the diesel revolution hits the US (and I think it will be in the next 5 years).

 

[md-lucky]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

However, Ford comes along with a Fusion Hybrid that leads domestic manufacturers in reliability.

A 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid. When could you start purchasing Toyota hybrid CARS? Or Honda?

They missed the boat on hybrid cars. Period. They are doing a good job of catching up, but they missed a huge wave with the initial prius craze.

Their diesel technology does't meet US requirements. That is a huge part of why they haven't offered these engines. We need to convince them (Ford, Chevy, Dodge, and the REST) that we want and need diesel options. As I said, I'm 100% convinced Ford will miss the boat again.. and will be playing catch up, again, just like the hybrid cars.

Don't mistake my critique of Ford as contempt. Our 08 Focus is the best car you can purchase for the money, and I think the world of Ford Motor Company. But they have enough "yes men" in their ranks.. I'll speak my mind every day of the week.

 

[High7eck Redneck]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

Saw my first jeep grand cherokee diesel today. 3.0 turbo diesel, have to go see what the tow rating is for one of these.

 

[rjlipscomb]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

I read plenty of news:
GM's Arlington plant to start SUV production again
02:19 PM CDT on Sunday, July 12, 2009

By TERRY BOX / The Dallas Morning News
tbox@dallasnews.com
After two months of silence, sparks will fly again Monday at the General Motors Assembly Plant in Arlington.

The factory's 2,400 workers will come to work for the first time since May 18, welding and bolting together Chevrolet Tahoe, GMC Yukon and Cadillac Escalade SUVs.

Sorry, but I guess you miss my point. Currently, the CAFE standards allow the production of full size trucks and sport utes. The CAFE standard is blended across the entire production fleet.

"The May 2009 auto efficiency program, which requires the American fleet to increase to an average mileage standard of 39 miles per gallon (mpg) for cars and 30 mpg for trucks by 2016--a jump from the current average for all vehicles of 25 miles per gallon." U.S. News

The Auto industry cannot stop production of its most popular vehicles overnight. However, they will either have to improve technology greatly or shift production to more fuel efficient vehicles (trucks/utes) in order to meet the 2016 standard.

My 2001 Suburban 2500 gets 12 mpg. It's probably rated at 12-14 or something. It's towing capacity is rated @ 10,000 lbs. Will GM be able to improve the big ute enough so that when averaged in production fleet rating it meets the 2016 standard. Or, is it dead.

I would love to drive a Suburban 2500 w/ 10,000 lb towing capacity that gets 30 mpg gas or diesel.

 

[witenite0560]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

I owned a Ford diesel truck. Loved the truck, hated the diesel and will never own another diesel. They're great if you're doing a lot of hauling, such as for business or a lot of travel. But, myself, I'll stick with gas for recreational use. Primarily just because of the expense. $400 for a water pump, $5000 for a used engine, etc. etc. Everything is heavier and far more expensive. I just don't see the advantage for recreational and daily driver use.

 

[scipper77]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

I owned a Ford diesel truck. Loved the truck, hated the diesel and will never own another diesel. They're great if you're doing a lot of hauling, such as for business or a lot of travel. But, myself, I'll stick with gas for recreational use. Primarily just because of the expense. $400 for a water pump, $5000 for a used engine, etc. etc. Everything is heavier and far more expensive. I just don't see the advantage for recreational and daily driver use.

Expense is an excellent point. I would hope that with mass production and not as heavy duty of an engine that parts will not be as expensive. I actually think in time replacement engines will be a dime a dozen based on the fact that a diesel engine can easily go 3-400,000 miles. The original car to that engine will likely fall apart well before then. Is it really worth spending the $$ to keep a Chevy Cobalt (random example) on thew road for 300K miles??

Having said that I agree that like any new technology we will certainly pay a premium in the beginning. As a parallel, Ever notice that you can get a DVD player for $25 but a Bluray costs $300. I remember when a CD player cost $300.

 

[scipper77]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

Has anyone here driven the VW TDI package?? I really want to. I just want to see if I love the low end torque or hate the lack of top end power.

 

[Rancherlee]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

A 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid. When could you start purchasing Toyota hybrid CARS? Or Honda?

They missed the boat on hybrid cars. Period. They are doing a good job of catching up, but they missed a huge wave with the initial prius craze.

Their diesel technology does't meet US requirements. That is a huge part of why they haven't offered these engines. We need to convince them (Ford, Chevy, Dodge, and the REST) that we want and need diesel options. As I said, I'm 100% convinced Ford will miss the boat again.. and will be playing catch up, again, just like the hybrid cars.

Don't mistake my critique of Ford as contempt. Our 08 Focus is the best car you can purchase for the money, and I think the world of Ford Motor Company. But they have enough "yes men" in their ranks.. I'll speak my mind every day of the week.

when could you purchase a Toyota or Honda HYBRID SUV? Ford had them out for 4 or 5 years now, they are not new to the scene. Hybrid STILL does not make economic sense, Even at 10$ a gallon the average Hybird takes well over 100000 miles of use to make up the 4000-5000$ difference in sticker price. Hybrid is still a status symbol for the environmentally snobby people who want to fell good about themselves. I was talking to a guy doing cold weather testing on the new F150 diesel in International Falls MN (I live 60 miles away) and he has been hearing that it should be out early 2010 as a 2011 model. He claimed its been running around 15mpg city and 23-24mpg highway but thats pretty much making laps around an airport.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

"The May 2009 auto efficiency program, which requires the American fleet to increase to an average mileage standard of 39 miles per gallon (mpg) for cars and 30 mpg for trucks by 2016--a jump from the current average for all vehicles of 25 miles per gallon." U.S. News

The Auto industry cannot stop production of its most popular vehicles overnight. However, they will either have to improve technology greatly or shift production to more fuel efficient vehicles (trucks/utes) in order to meet the 2016 standard.

My 2001 Suburban 2500 gets 12 mpg. It's probably rated at 12-14 or something. It's towing capacity is rated @ 10,000 lbs. Will GM be able to improve the big ute enough so that when averaged in production fleet rating it meets the 2016 standard. Or, is it dead.

I would love to drive a Suburban 2500 w/ 10,000 lb towing capacity that gets 30 mpg gas or diesel.

The goal is not unobtainable. There has been no incentives to do much of anything to raise gas mileage. Europe's "incentives" are insanely high fuel taxes. Ours in the US tend to be time-based regulations. I'm old enough to remember all of the bellyaching by the car manufacturers about how seatbelts, then emissions controls, then airbags, then stability control will just KILL the car industry. It didn't happen in those cases, and it most likely won't this time, either.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

I think fuel pinching diesels are a much better idea than gas electric hybrids.
I can see the Chebby Volt electric being practical for a good number of folks I would not expect to save the earth powering cars with coal burning electrical generation but it looks like coal is going to be taxed possibly to death.

Bold new world forthcoming.

A volt at $45,000 isn't going to sell to the masses either.

 

[md-lucky]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

when could you purchase a Toyota or Honda HYBRID SUV? Ford had them out for 4 or 5 years now, they are not new to the scene. Hybrid STILL does not make economic sense, Even at 10$ a gallon the average Hybird takes well over 100000 miles of use to make up the 4000-5000$ difference in sticker price.

Bingo. So if it takes that long to recoup the cost of a hybrid in a car that averages 40 mpg, how long does it take to recoup a suv that averages 30mpg? If you want to make it a discussion of "why should anyone have a hybrid," then we can pretty much end it here in 100% agreement. I see no value to a hybrid vehicle for 99.9% of the people in the world. They are a band-aid for a bullet hole.. But, they are in demand. From a business perspective, build what's in demand.

Hybrid is still a status symbol for the environmentally snobby people who want to fell good about themselves. I was talking to a guy doing cold weather testing on the new F150 diesel in International Falls MN (I live 60 miles away) and he has been hearing that it should be out early 2010 as a 2011 model. He claimed its been running around 15mpg city and 23-24mpg highway but thats pretty much making laps around an airport.

The next round of diesel emissions requirements comes out in 2010. Ford is probably going to do something similar with the 6.4 as they did with the 6.0. You will be able to purchase a 2010 Superduty with the 6.4, but it will be an extremely short build year. They will either offer new changes in early 2010 and call their trucks "2010.5s" (Dodge is notorious for this..) or they will offer an all new truck in early 2010 and call it a 2011. The 2011 will most likely be a 6.7 twin turbo built by Ford (no more international). As far as the F-150, it really is anyone's guess at this point. Ford teased and flirted saying they planned on releasing it in the 2010 F-150. Now, they have no intention of doing it. If the economy changes and they have enough interest, there is a good chance we will see it around 2011 or 2012. But it is far from a sure bet.

 

[bekosh]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

The future for towing "large" boats is probably "large" diesel powered sedans. Like this one.

For those of us without 6 figure incomes to pay the extra taxes, we may have to down size a little.

 

[gixxerjim]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

One thing I think that people often overlook when discussing hyrids/gas engines/diesel options etc is the real reason at least some people are pushing for better economy and emissions: to protect the environment, i.e. the air we breathe, the water we enjoy boating on, the polar ice cap etc etc. Often when people debate the options for future vehicles, the cost is the only consideration some people relate to.

People too often look compare out of pocket cost alone, and if the cost goes up $200 per year they say it doesn't make sense to change. Do they mind paying for airbags/seatbelts/crumple zones that may save their and their families lives?

Never mind that the $200 per year more expensive vehicle may greatly reduce pollution of our planet relative to the gasoline choice. Never mind that less gasoline dependence may help reduce our cash flow to violent/irrational/US hating soon to be nuclear countries. Or that the required technological advances may produce jobs in the US vs cheap gas tech that China, S.Korea etc have already undercut the US workers out of their jobs. Will that $200 per year result in American workers with decent jobs and reduced taxes for unemployment/welfare etc?

How many people really will stand up and foot the bill to be part of a solution for the country? If you can afford a 8000lb boat you can afford the $200 a year!

 

[bekosh]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

How many people really will stand up and foot the bill to be part of a solution for the country? If you can afford a 8000lb boat you can afford the $200 a year!

No offense, but that is not your decision to make. For now at least, this is a free country and I will decide whether that $200 a year, more like $200 per month, is affordable for myself. And I will trust in my fellow Americans to make that decision for themselves as well.

If you want to spend the extra dollars, be my guest. Just don't go trying to force the rest of us to do the same.

 

[skargo]

Re: Is this the future of towing??

A hybrid is WORSE for the environment than an H2, don't buy the hype.