"Master Bait'R" Restore Thread

[sevanseriesta]

Ok, this is a 1990 ProCraft fish and ski. Im not sure of the first step so I am looking for recommendations. Keep in mind this will be my first restore. I am going to post pics from the ski compartment and transom area. I believe the transom to be 100% solid. I think even the stringers are good the farther back you go. So My question is do I start to cut the floor out before I remove the cap? Or leave the cap on and remove the floor, or leave the floor on while removing the cap? I will also post pics of the floor.

First Stringers pic, near the bow

In the middle, pic from the ski Locker

From the ski locker looking towards the Stern

These are pics of the back port side

Pic of the transom area

Pic of the back starboard side looking towards the bow. As you can see this looks like it will cause me a problem with getting the cap off. It is like this on both sides.

 

[sevanseriesta]

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Again starboard side looking towards the bow, livewell to the left

Top of the boat

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

step 1 - denial (my boat doesnt have rotten stringers)
step 2 - deep breath
step 3 - panic
step 4 - acceptance
step 5 - depression
step 6 - recovery
step 7 - seek advise

ok, we are on to step 8 - read the restorations from Oops, Woodonglass, and friscoboater

then steps 9 and on:
remove everything from in the boat, take pictures of everything. use labeled baggies for the hardware. pull the rub rail, and remove all the screws (your going to want to pull the cap). pull the drive and motor. get out the safety gear. then get out the implements of destruction. remove the old stringers, and grind the fiberglass down. measure everything, then order material.

that should get you thru the first few weeks.

 

[sevanseriesta]

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

I know it has rotten stringers, my question was do I cut the floor before pulling the cap or pull the cap with the floor attached. The top of the floor is going to come off with the cap I believe they are fiberglassed together. Also I am going to have to cut the fiberglass that is attaching the cap to the floor in the back (6th pic)

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

In steps 1-8, where is Notify the Admiral that a stint (of indeterminate length) in dry dock is pending:facepalm:

Otherwise, yep, seems about right

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

I know it has rotten stringers, my question was do I cut the floor before pulling the cap or pull the cap with the floor attached. The top of the floor is going to come off with the cap I believe they are fiberglassed together. Also I am going to have to cut the fiberglass that is attaching the cap to the floor in the back (6th pic)

Until you start taking it apart, it's hard to confirm exactly how it's been put together unless someone has already done a 1990 ProCraft F&S.

You will probably want to construct a cradle to support the hull and prevent distortion during demo & put back.

To remove the cap (which in many places, rests on the deck) you will be removing lots of stuff. Take lots of pix & dimensions. Esp the width of the hull at the rubrail joint to the cap, inside to inside, so that you can ensure the hull has not distorted while the cap was removed. If it does, the cap may not fit, or may not fit properly. I often shoot pix w/ the tape measure visible for reference. You will want to try & remove many parts & pieces intact so you can use them as templates for the new plywood parts. Pix of how storage lockers & decks fit together &/or are constructed.

If it is assembled like many (most??, mine anyway) you need to cut/grind & separate the inner transom from the cap. This will require removing the trim & rubrail at the transom & using a multi-tool or sawzall to run along the top of the wooden transom between the splashwell cap & the exterior transom skin. Then gain access to the joint between the underside of the splashwell and the wooden transom, this joint will also need to be cut. As you continue along the rubrail from the stern, removing it, removing whatever fasteners the factory used to join the cap (upper) and hull (lower) sections of the hull to 1 another. Screws, bolts, rivets, staples, etc...

Remove the windshield(s), and then consoles, if possible, or unscrewed/riveted from the ply decking it attached at the gunwale. You will need to address adequate support for the consoles if they remain attached to the gunwales. A 1X or 2X run across the width of the cap and secured to the gunwale, and screw the consoles to the 1x. You will be mixing lots of resin based filler, so an extra screw hole or 2 can be fixed then.

Remove all the structure in the bow: benches, casting deck, hatches, storage lockers, baitwells, livewells etc... Some of these structures may be integral to the cap, so they too may need support prior to removal of the cap. Separate the remaining integral structure from the deck, sawzall or screwdriver or drill out the rivets.........

Have a well formed plan for where the cap will be stored during the next stage of demo.

Once the cap is off, you should have full access to the deck, and can begin removing it..

 

[sevanseriesta]

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Thanks Jb for all of the helpful information... Looks like wifey is not getting her parking spot in the garage for a while. I will update after this weekend to see how far I got. I may get on and post for some help later. Have I bit off more then I can chew. Time will tell.

 

[sevanseriesta]

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

I have disassembeled the enitre boat, Minus gauges and steering and windshield. I cant get it off for some reason there is something holding it down and I have not Idea what I can not see any screws or bolts to undo. I figured I would leave gauges and steering on since they will all come off with the cap.

I have undone all bilge lines, wiring, carpet and compartments, rubrail, and screws holding the cap to the hull, however it feels like the cap is not budging at all, is there something else that I might be missing, that might be holding it on

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Shoot some pix of the boat's interior, far enough away to show some of the boat, but close enough to see where it might be hanging you up.

Is the engine cover & the 2 jump seats attached? The bow seating? I'd remove the windshields, mostly for the weight, but also to minimize damage during cap removal & storage..T

Is there expanded foam sprayed into the hull/cap areas? It may be holding the cap down, esp since foam would probably be shot into the hull after the cap install....

Check out GT's thread, may be able to find some help during his dismantle.....

His is a bass boat, I haven't followed any other F&S resto's, but I'm sure there are some

 

[sevanseriesta]

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Shoot some pix of the boat's interior, far enough away to show some of the boat, but close enough to see where it might be hanging you up.

Is the engine cover & the 2 jump seats attached? The bow seating? I'd remove the windshields, mostly for the weight, but also to minimize damage during cap removal & storage..T

Is there expanded foam sprayed into the hull/cap areas? It may be holding the cap down, esp since foam would probably be shot into the hull after the cap install....

Check out GT's thread, may be able to find some help during his dismantle.....

His is a bass boat, I haven't followed any other F&S resto's, but I'm sure there are some

Here is where I am so for, I just started cutting and it looks like it would not have mattered anyways because the floor is pretty rotted would have needed to be cut out anyways. But once you get to the back seats that wood is dry and solid I am hoping that when I take the cap of it stays that way. Anyways here some pics let me know if you think I am starting the right way. My floor was screwed/nailed down there was no way I was going to be able to do what GT did.

I need to know if I should cut closer to the edges, Let me know what you think on that also

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

It looks like you are cutting the deck out in the central area of the boat. I may be mistaken, but the bottom edges of the console that I highlighted:

look like they are holding the consoles to the deck. The upper outside end of the console is attached to the cap, aren't they?

Until you get these areas freed, there's no way your cap is coming loose. As well as any other structure tying the cap to the hull or deck.

Have you read thru so other resto threads? You need to make sure you've got lots of pix & measurements of the boat before you dismantle it. When you take the cap off, the hull sides could droop open, or the bottom of the hull sag, if you glass the deck back in (or stringers/transom) while the hull is out of shape, the cap may not fit back, or fit correctly.

Most build a cradle to fully support the hull during demo & put back.

Just to be sure we're talking about the same things, the cap is the top portion of the boat, like the lid of a shoe box. The hull is the bottom portion of that box, and the deck is the 'floor' between them, on top of the stringers.

 

[sevanseriesta]

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

It looks like you are cutting the deck out in the central area of the boat. I may be mistaken, but the bottom edges of the console that I highlighted:

look like they are holding the consoles to the deck. The upper outside end of the console is attached to the cap, aren't they?

Until you get these areas freed, there's no way your cap is coming loose. As well as any other structure tying the cap to the hull or deck.

Have you read thru so other resto threads? You need to make sure you've got lots of pix & measurements of the boat before you dismantle it. When you take the cap off, the hull sides could droop open, or the bottom of the hull sag, if you glass the deck back in (or stringers/transom) while the hull is out of shape, the cap may not fit back, or fit correctly.

Most build a cradle to fully support the hull during demo & put back.

Just to be sure we're talking about the same things, the cap is the top portion of the boat, like the lid of a shoe box. The hull is the bottom portion of that box, and the deck is the 'floor' between them, on top of the stringers.

The areas you highlighted have already been cut it is the same way on the other side also. I did find that the cap is also attached in the front of the boat, in the compartments those have beem cut also now.

Here is a picture of the side of the boat, mesurements are tough and I am not sure where to get them because the cap has these areas that overhang, I think that is the right word, and go to the deck, and the entire deck looks like it is attached to the cap. Hopefully these pics help. Also should I try to cut as close to the side as possible or leave room? And where are the best places to take measurements. I will show the 2 measurements that i have taken.

 

[sevanseriesta]

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

This part will be interesting still not sure how this is going to work.....The transom is as solid as a rock and is completely fiberglassed on the inside.I have drilled into it from several location and there is no rot.

As you can see the Cap comes over the hull and down to the deck....

 

[sevanseriesta]

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Here are picks from the inside looking at the transom. It appears that someone has completely fiberglass the cap/transom/splashwell/hull together. Tell me if you see different but there are no gaps anywhere. Also I did decided to cut all the way around the deck/side as close as i could that way I could make sure that it was seperated from the hull. So assuming that the transom was not completly encased in fiberglass, the cap should come off.

And what do I do if I do break the cap taking it off. Hasn't happened yet just curious.

This is starboard side looking up at the splashwell

Still starboard side you can see no gap between the splashwell and the transom

Directly below splashwell

Portside stern

Starboard side stern

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Hmmm, it is much different then I envisioned...

Those thru transom drains from inside the splashwell to the back of the transom, the aluminum tubes, will also need to be removed. They are available in a few materials, but that is for later, you can use a jab saw or a hacksaw blade to carefully cut them into 2 or 3pcs & gently pry them out (they may beglued into the hole) to minimize damage to the fiberglass skin on either end of the tube.

Based on the pix showing the cap-hull joint at the splashwell, it looks like there may have already been repair/patch work done at some point. Pix #2 & 3 in your post #13. Or at least some sort of sealant (silicone) has been applied to the rubrail & trim in the splashwell areas....

Looking back at post #1, the transom shot looks like it hasn't been redone, or at least not to me.

Since based on the early pix, we know you have stringer & deck rot, and you've already started the process, I would start at 2+/-" from the edge of any of the fiberglass gunwale that is attached vertically at all edges of your deck, along this red line:

Leaving the vertical interior gunwale attached to the cap.

Follow that line all the way around the bottom of the gunwale, deck joint.. You can always trim more out, but if you don't have to don't, for now. You will be close to the hull on the back side of this cut, avoid making more work for yourself, but it too can be filled/fixed. Many of us start our put back with the thru hull/cap slices.

It looks more like your boat was built in just 2 pcs: hull & the cap that had tan integral deck & interior gunwales. When they installed the cap, the interior was already substantially complete.

Before you remove cut more, and definitely before you remove the cap, build a cradle that follows the hull along the keel from the beginning of the bow to the transom, left & right under the boat and in a few locations vertically up to the rubrail. Cover the cradle with carpet or carpet pad scraps. Building it before you remove the cap, will hopefully minimize distortion. You might try to sight down the hull in several places & confirm that it isn't distorted prior to building your cradle.

With a cap & integral interior, the only way to accurately measure the interior hull/cap joint distance, is to cut an inspection hole at each point you want to measure, on both sides of the boat. That's a lot of holes, I measured every 16" transom to bow in mine. With a cradle under the boat, hopefully it won't move around much & you can check the distances after you remove the cap. And regularly re-check that distance.

Before you do any of that ^^^, I strongly suggest you attempt to find some similar F&S resto's and read those threads & many more. Esp those in Don's how to thread. I don't even play a glass repair expert on TV....

This ^^^ is all based on my best guess of a 'good' way to proceed from here, on your particular boat & current situation as I understand it. There maybe (& probably are) other ways.

You just posted again while I wrote this, I'll check that & come back..

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Best I can assess w/ out crawling around on your boat, is that under that casting platform in the bow, and under the doghouse, seats & rear platform the hull & 'cap' (or whatever you call that 1pcs interior & cap), there is additional glasswork, or expanding foam still holding the 2halves together. In addition to the transom/splashwell connection.

If there is anyway to see up & under those platforms, even hand held camera stuffed up under there...

To answer your question about damaging the cap, do your best not to by carefully lifting & supporting it as best you can. If you do, more grinding, then resin & glass work, possibly some work to re-align & support the joint thru repair.

If you check thru some threads, instead of removing the cap, some restos cut the splashwell off across the gunwale. Remove it, and just have to do a more visible repair to the finished surfaces of the gunwale. You may end up having to do something similar to get the cap off....

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

look like a standard bass boat. firstly follow the advice of making a cradle as it will save you time later. next tie a 2x4 across the front dock hooks then put a strap in the middle and apply a little pressure then with paint scrappers and chissels start to dig into the floor and under the cap around the consule and lip. they appplied the top on to the bottom with thickened resin it will snap like glass and the top section will come free. its more of a peel of the top job then a lift job.

http://forums.iboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=142923&d=1335324097&thumb=1
the link shows a pic from my rebuild where i had to break the cap from the floor. there may also be a piece of glass in the very front if you pull the switch panel up front it will be up front that you can cut. once the front starts to loosen you can add a little pressure on the lift and work your way to the back looking for places its stuck (you wont break the cap as long as it never comes more than a few inchs up once you get to where its holding the transom then put another 2x4 across the rear dock hooks and a 2x6 down the middle of the boat and tie it to the 2x4 so when you lift the frame it will share the load over the 4 dock hooks)..once you get to the back you have a few options. if you can get to the skins of the transom then cut around the splash well into the inner transom skin then chissel the glass to break it where the grinder doesnt fit (the pressure from lifting the front will realy help here as the glass has to be ripped of the transom) or you can cut a window in the cap so you can get between the spash well and the transom. the resin is a pain to break free but you can do it this way as i did mine. the other option is to cut the rear of the splash well out which is the way others have done it. if the transom is soft i would cut the inner skin and keep the cap intact. if the transom is solid then i would cut the spash well as you are going to have to repair the cap so weather its a window or the back of the splash well its still a repair plus it will save you 3-4hrs of hammering and grinding

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=543698 (my post ignore the rest of it the picture of the top being seperated in on the first page as the link i put earlier is to small)

 

[sevanseriesta]

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Taking the cap off will cease until I get a crane and cradle made. So how do I make this. I can not pull the boat off the trailer like others have as I will need to put the boat in the garage cause I will have no where to store my trailer. I need a system that I can build that will allow me to lift the boat off the trailer and allow me to set it onto a cradle.

Anyone got any Ideas? Or writeups on what others have done. I know Oops did it, but he did not show how he raised his or lowered his on his boat extension thread.

 

[sevanseriesta]

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

And I saw yesterday that I gut into my livewell bucket. already making more work for myself. And I was being so Careful too.

 

[sevanseriesta]

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Re: How would you recommend starting stringer Replacement

Ok, I read a thread where oops told them how to get the boat of the trailer by just lowering and raising the front so I am going to try that. My question would be where to brace the hull at, and Should I do brace it the entire length of the boat?

Here is a pic Do I brace all locations?