Mexicans striking

rodbolt

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Re: Mexicans striking

dogsdad<br /> its not a cynical club.<br /> its an observation that for the past 100 years or so most of our policies in latin america,africa and the middle east not to mention parts of europe have been dismal failures.<br /> the biggest reason was most the policies were not really national security but national intrest drivin. the problem with national intrest driven is and will always be the drivers tend to be very oppressive corperations that tend to maximize profits regardless of human/environmental costs. they did it because its far far away and most americans I meet never heard of a lot of the places, much less something like the school of the americas or other US based terrorist training camps.<br /> and it seems we have had 6 more years and most likly 2 more of more of the same.<br /> did ya see McCains speech offering 50 bucks an hour? wonder how many welfare folk will apply and how many will actually make the season.<br /> having picked a few veggies in my time I wont apply.<br /> to much work for not enough dollars.<br />but regardless of the administration stupidity seems to run rampant in DC.<br />however after 6 years on the Job the current admin looks a bit lame blasting the past 4 or 5 admins.<br />but it will be fun to hear ole carl testify soon :) poor scooter, seems he is now bent on embarrasing his former boss's at a time when they need all the blind support they can get.<br /> but getting back to the illegal issue, its not gonna go away anytime soon I fear.<br /> there are just not enough american workers to fill the gap. farm work is not covered by most of the US labor laws. its tough work,its dangerous,its deadly and its incredibly boring with no real chance for any advancements or promotions.<br /> I have chunked melons,baled hay,picked pecans,picked cucumbers and tomatoes,dug and culled taters,picked some cabbage and more collards than I care to admit.<br /> the melons and hay were big money,for 2 weeks, got 2.20 an hour. started at 0500 and ended at 1700 and we got 30 min off at lunch for head calls and eats. usually ate in the field as it was to far to go back to the farm house area.<br /> wanna go pee? pee in the field as if you take much of a break or the forman thinks you take to many breaks and you will get a pay check and a request not to show up for the truck in the morning.<br /> I personnaly found I could make more money more reliably fixing equipment then picking stuff.<br /> also farm work has no wage standards it also has very low age standards.
 

dogsdad

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Re: Mexicans striking

All you've done is reiterate your cynical criticism. Again I ask, do you think it is better to do nothing when faced with a situation because of some paralytic fear of unintended consequences? Last time I checked, national interest and national security were for the most part mutually inclusive.<br /><br />As far as farm labor is concerned, let's look at McCain's comments first: I am sure he won't actually pay anyone $50 per hour. I'll tell ya what, for that kinda money I'll be on a bus for Yuma in a heartbeat. I have personally seen white kids willingly participate in harvest for much less than $50 per hour, so I don't believe that ya gotta have illegals doing the work. <br /><br />If all the illegals are kicked out and kept out, the market will adjust things so that there is sufficient labor to pick crops. If the price of food rises, so be it. To argue against that is to promote the existence of an underclass that is meant to labor much like slaves, and to take such a position for the sake of cheap food is immoral, to say the least.<br /><br />In the long run, for food to be valued properly in our economy would probably be a very good thing. Think of it: youngsters out there on their first job discovering the value of a dollar, a lot of lard-asses reassessing their food consumption habits, and a country not being overrun by a group who has vowed in the past to take the American Southwest back (and which I believe would not stop there).
 

QC

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Re: Mexicans striking

The more I think about this, the more I am convinced the ONLY thing we need to do is enforce the hiring issue. If there is no hiring of illegals (including the gardener) doesn't this problem fix itself? If not, why?
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Mexicans striking

DD, I can't believe it we actually agree, someone get my nitroglycerin! (Who was it that Fred Sanford was going to meet?)<br />QC, I kinda agree with you as well, but that will actually be harder to enforce than sealing the border....<br />I think a combo of both will work though....JK
 

QC

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Re: Mexicans striking

Originally posted by Haut Medoc:<br /> QC, I kinda agree with you as well, but that will actually be harder to enforce than sealing the border....
I think just the opposite . . . Ya start with increased and severe penalties . . . jail . . .
 

dogsdad

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Re: Mexicans striking

JK, he used to say, "Oohhh, oohhh, it's the big one! I'm a-comin' Lizabeth!" I share your amazement that we actually agree on something. Who'd o' thunk it?<br /><br />QC, there's one thing that slapping penalties on employers definitely won't accomplish---and that's the securing of the borders. I think the penalties idea is a good one, but we need a barrier---and I suggest a physical barrier---in addition to vigorous enforcement of existing laws. And at this point with the situation being what it is, I think that would include mass deportations.
 

QC

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Re: Mexicans striking

Originally posted by dogsdad:<br /> QC, there's one thing that slapping penalties on employers definitely won't accomplish---and that's the securing of the borders
If there were no jobs available who'd come? :confused: <br /><br />Secure as in keep out bad guys? Yeah, but that's not happening now. Don't we eliminate 95% of the draw for the typical illegal if there are no jobs?
 

RubberFrog

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Re: Mexicans striking

Originally posted by QC:<br />If there were no jobs available who'd come? :confused: ... Don't we eliminate 95% of the draw for the typical illegal if there are no jobs?
Yes, QC, we would<br />. <br />Unfortunately, regardless of the eloquence of your logic, the cogency of your reasoning, or the depth of your passion- every thing you say will be ignored and someone will simply restate their opinion. For good or bad.<br /><br />You don't think you're really going to change anyones opinion, do you?<br /><br />Now you understand why I simply reply with nuke the border.
 

QC

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Re: Mexicans striking

Originally posted by RubberFrog:<br /> You don't think you're really going to change anyones opinion, do you?
No. I may sound like I am preaching, but I'm honestly asking. I may actually learn something and we should end up at least knowing where we differ.<br /><br />Nuke the border. Drop the Chalupa. Maybe that order is wrong . . . hmmmmmmm.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Mexicans striking

QC, I agree again, but I still don't think it is <br /> enough.....<br />So, RF, if someone can make it through the fallout then let 'em in? They would be looking like the people in "Omega Man!" :eek: <br />DD, yep 'Lizabeth :D :D .....JK
 

dogsdad

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Re: Mexicans striking

Originally posted by QC:<br />
Originally posted by dogsdad:<br /> QC, there's one thing that slapping penalties on employers definitely won't accomplish---and that's the securing of the borders
If there were no jobs available who'd come? :confused: <br />
Uhhh...I was hinting at terrorists. I guess I should be more clear when I throw a stone that's meant to kill two birds.
 

QC

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Re: Mexicans striking

Originally posted by Haut Medoc:<br /> They would be looking like the people in "Omega Man!"
LOL We called 'em Omega Dudes. I think I was 11. Scared the ship outta me . . . :eek:
 

dogsdad

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Re: Mexicans striking

And, on second thought, there have been terrible problems with Mexicans coming over with criminal intent. In El Paso during the early 90s, it was near impossible to keep a Ford pickup in your driveway because the thieves were relentless. There were other vehicles that were very high on the likely-to-be-stolen list. And cars were not the only subject of interest. <br /><br />And let us not forget the South American drug gangs. These are some extremely dangerous people who have bad intent. They don't come over looking for jobs!
 

QC

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Re: Mexicans striking

dd,<br /><br />That's what I meant by bad guys. We're on the same page, I just don't think it is imperative that you kill both birds with the same stone. The evil ones will find another way in anyway . . . Seems like the mass quantity thing is easily fixed. It'll only work if you believe the economy would survive, which I do . . .
 

QC

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Re: Mexicans striking

We're posting on top of eachother . . . good points.
 

Link

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Re: Mexicans striking

I did not come up with this, but it sounds like a good idea. And simple.<br /><br />Two stage:<br />1: Put a small fine (say $500.00) per person on the employer for hiring illegal's which is enforceable<br />(pick a country as they are not all Mexican)<br /><br />Soon the employer would require them to be legal or would not hire them.<br /><br />2: Take away free benefits.<br /><br />There would be no reason for them to stay here anymore.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Mexicans striking

It will survive without illegals, & it pizzes me off when I hear people say that it will come to a grinding halt 'cuz no one will pick fruit or flip burgers or be janitors or mow lawns....<br />These should be entry level jobs for high school kids, not carreers.....<br />We indulge our youth so they don't have to work, & entitle others who don't want to....<br />Carp! There I go exposing my soft conservative underbelly again :eek: :D .....JK
 
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