My Big Tyee 5.3 Slowww Simmered Resto'

[lakeorbay]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Okay, here's the leak.

Here's an overview. The pics following will have corresponding numbers with this one.

Those dark lines are not shadows caused by the light. Those are actual separations in the weld.

.....again

No graphic needed here. You can't help but see that one.

.....starting to taper off a bit (so it seems). No pun intended.

This appears to be the end of the fissure and a couple splits in what I call ribs.

to be cont.....

 

[lakeorbay]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

......cont.

The last of the damage pics. I don't think the leak extends into this bay.

 

[Starman8]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Keep this in mind. Contact LUND and ask if that model by year was an original one-piece hull, or is it a factory weld 2-piece. Our older Starcrafts are one-piece in design. Not sure about Lund?

Also consider the following:

Even after you repair the damage, chances are stress may cause it to separate again if a 2 piece hull. Also keep in mind that a boat is a bowl and water enters from the outside. Putting water in a hull is standard procedure, but putting a hull in water with stress caused by movement is better.

All that said, if the keel strip that runs longnitudinal is HOLLOW, water will enter into it after you launch, and moving water will then put force into it. Consider filling the keel strip with silicone to make it 100% solid.

 

[lakeorbay]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Thanks Starman, I will check with Lund. I'm pretty sure it is factory 2-piece. I'm no boat expert, but when I was deconstructing the boat, I was actively looking for signs of someone else having been into the boat before. I saw none.

Yeah, I'm concerned. Even if I get it welded, what's to stop it from happening again. Some of the lakes I fish have huge sub-surface trees and rocks are common in every body of water. The keel strip is hollow BTW.

I'm going to need some reassurance before moving forward. Money, time and my wife might stop me too.

 

[lakeorbay]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

......and more damage.

I know stringers go the length of a boat but, what are they called when they go across?

For lack of not knowing the proper terms, I made up my own names. The areas numbered in red, I'm calling "bays". The pieces numbered in green, I'm calling "joist". The pieces numbered in yellow, I'm calling "ribs".

Which one of the parts above would be known as "skin"? Anyone?

Pics following this shot have corresponding numbers.

Backside of joist 1. The impact jacked this one up pretty bad.

Front side of joist 1.

Backside of joist 2. Not too bad.

The crack in the weld goes underneath joist 1 & 2 and between rib 1 & 2. If I even bother to continue with this project, I assume I will need to remove the joist and ribs to allow access for welding. Rib 1, is damaged pretty bad on both sides near the center of the boat. I don't know whether they need to be replace and wouldn't know where to find a replacement. If I decide to carry on, I guess I'll call Lund and ask some Q's.

 

[Starman8]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

I found this on an old web thread......................

He called Lund, talked to their repair managers (first-name basis), and all made the same recommendation.
Remove the floor. You can probably do this yourself and save a lot of labor charges. Remove the floatation. Drill out the rivets that hold the skin to the ribs on either side of the crack. Slip a piece of marine aluminum between the skin and ribs. Lots of Alumaseal is added between the patch and skin. Rerivet the ribs, patch, and skin. Drill a holes at the ends of the crack, rivet to prevent further cracking. Rivet the patch to the skin around the crack. For cosmetic purposes, weld the crack shut. It's important to use as little heat as possible to avoid losing the heat treatment of the original skin. Normal welding heat and slow cooling makes aluminum very brittle(opposite of tempering steel).

Another guy stated..................I had to tow the boat from Michigan to the Lund factory in New York Mills, Mn. where they removed the floor and welded a plate inside over the cracked area and added some other reinforcement.


----
and an aluminum boat veteran of Lake Erie once mentioned that aluminum hulls need to be fixed from the outside first. Remember when I mentioned "bowl".

I suppose if the keel strip was removed, and you bonded a "U" shaped aluminum piece longnitudinal(front to back) encompassing the entire centerline on both the inside and outside, then fastened it all together with the keelstrip and replacement rivets, that kind of covers what the above quotes stated, but both in and out for redundancy.

 

[lakeorbay]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

First I would like to say, thanks Starman for doing some awesome homework for me. I don't have much luck when I search a topic. I usually pull up some distracting thread that has nothing to do with what I'm looking for.

Next I would like to say WOW! OMG! and HOLY F$#@in' !@#$. I just keeps getting deeper. I love a challenge, but only when I have the time and money. I should have waited to buy a project when I was actually ready. The opportunity was there. I took it. Now I need to live with it. I'm not throwing in the towel just yet, but......

I'm not real clear on what "the skin" is. I think they mean the hull.

If I actually followed through with a repair like that, I would think, one long piece of aluminum would be the best way to go for the outer patch, unless some sort of gasket was used at the separations. Matching the contour of the boat is not for rookies. Might need to pay some kind of fabricator ($$$). There would be no choice but to do the inside patch in pieces. Maybe welding the inside patch would be beneficial (or maybe cause a water trap).

Is this even worth it? I would not buy a new boat unless I had money to burn. Only thing I want new is the motor. If I bought another used aluminum boat, IT could have unforeseen problems like a leak and would most likely come with a used motor. I only paid for a hull. A "Gluvit" boat is the way to go in my opinion, so that means I would still have to deconstruct and reconstruct. A used fiberglass boat might have waterlogged stringers from what I've been reading. Plus glass need bigger motors.

Don't mind me, I'm just pondering and rambling.........might be time to abandon ship.

 

[Starman8]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

First of all, many of us "frugal" folks choose Starcraft because of the one-piece hull. They even had their issues, mainly in the 90's by putting on that useless keelstrip by punching a thousand holes in the bottom of the hull, and they admitted it was stupid, and newer models don't have that. That said, Gluvit is great stuff, I use it, but if there is a structural issue, you are wasting $100. In other words, if the metal supports are ripping apart from stress, imagine what an epoxy will do..................fail miserably.

If I had your hull, I would do the following:

Fix the cross supports that have failed. The tears in the ribs, and anything cracked port to starboard.

Then, drill out the rivets holding the keel strip and remove. Fill the unattached keelstrip with silicone and make solid.

Fabricate and attach exterior aluminum cladding that V's at the hull keel upwards past the rivet holes. Do the same on the inside hull. Then secure with new rivets. You have effectively "shored up" the keel, or centerline 3 times the original thickness. There had to be some type of lateral shuddering over the years to cause the metal to separate.

I am no expert. But, I have fixed a few leakers that were given up. Yours sounds like a challenge that may be rewarding. Do some research on affixing aluminum on to aluminum, i.e glues, epoxies, adhesives, and welds, both cold and hot. The new exterior seam created by the new piece outside the hull can be "faired" easily to blend the new seams.

 

[lakeorbay]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Well, you've bolstered my inspiration for sure. I'm stubborn and I don't give up on things, especially if it's difficult. If I did, the boat would have been in the scrap yard 2 years ago. That's how long it's been in my garage and in my dreams.......it will get done!

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

I think I would scrap it. Aluminum gets you a pretty penny these days. Keep your eye out for another tin hull. That one is just really really damaged.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

I hate to have to agree, but you might be ahead of the game if you just let this one go. I highly doubt that the foam is original and no riveted boat is ever welded. Riveted boats are made of 6000 series aluminum. A continuous weld like that would cause cracking which is what you're finding. It's not curable with more welding or Gluvit, the boat is done. The heat affected zone (haz) spread clear to the ends of the ribs which is why they've cracked and broken.

I know how long you've been waiting to get a boat like this. I could tell you were itchin to get started when you came by that day. I really didn't want to write this post but I think you may have jumped the gun with this one. I'm sorry..

You're welcome to bring it by the house when the weather clears. If it can be fixed, I can do it. I know how to weld 6061 Aluminum so it won't crack but if it's already cracked there's not much anyone can do.

 

[lakeorbay]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

I may be stubborn, but I'm not stupid and I'm man enough to change my mind. I'm wise enough to weigh the odds and listen to experience. I'm also a fool for starting this quest.

I posted my findings to get opinions because I make some bad, hasty decisions on my own. I would have had pride in a custom boat with a new motor but, I considered the cost and effort. I think I would break just about even if I cut losses and waited patiently. I've seen a lot of trick boats for a decent price pass me by. I plan to get one when the time comes.

Too bad I didn't make the time to find out sooner........my garage can use some much needed space.

Thanks iboaters

 

[sschefer]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Don't beat yourself up over this. Sometimes it works and you end up with a jewel. When it doesn't you find another way. Let me know if you need a hand picking the next one, I'm not that far from you and would be happy to give you a hand.

 

[lakeorbay]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Don't beat yourself up over this. Sometimes it works and you end up with a jewel. When it doesn't you find another way. Let me know if you need a hand picking the next one, I'm not that far from you and would be happy to give you a hand.

Will do Steve, thanks.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

We'd love to have you in the Starcraft club!!!

 

[Teamster]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

I wouldn't give up until someone with aluminum welding and fabricating skills gives it a look see,.....

Yous might manage to save it yet,...

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Teamster,

Sschefer is about as good as they get when it comes to aluminum welding and fabricating.

 

[lakeorbay]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

We'd love to have you in the Starcraft club!!!

Maybe EZ.......

The next time I pulled the boat out of the garage, it will be on the way to be evaluated by an expert. Depending on the results the next stop wil be the scrap yard.

My slow simmered reto, is now a fizzled out, bad tasting dead thread sinking to the bottom like left over particles of a bait fish.

.......wait 'til you see the next boat.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

The next time I pulled the boat out of the garage, it will be on the way to be evaluated by an expert. Depending on the results the next stop wil be the scrap yard.

Reminds me of the time my aunt took a lamb to the vet but found out the butcher was cheaper

 

[Starman8]

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Re: Would you patch this or this?

Not gonna argue with a metals expert, a welding expert, and an aluminum boat expert. What I will say is this is a small tin can, and not a passenger yacht.