My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

[bruceb58]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

Carbs were doing this with 2 year old gas long before ethanol came along.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

Carbs were doing this with 2 year old gas long before ethanol came along.

Any gas sitting that long can do that. It don't have to have ethanol in it.

Yep and Yep.

 

[littlerayray]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

one thing ethanol burns really dry where as gasoline burns wet that is the only concern i have when running high amounts of ethanol

 

[bigdee]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

Ethanol is a major headache for small engines and Briggs&Stratton warns against it, especially above 10%. Ethanol has corrosive properties when it settles out of gasoline as it does in engines that sit unused for long periods....Stabilizer is a must these days!

 

[littlerayray]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

newer small engines are designed to run on ethanol i think 1998 and newer correct me if im wrong but they are designed to run on ethanol blend my briggs lawn mower which i bought new 2 years ago didnt have any warnings about ethanol blends

 

[bigdee]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

newer small engines are designed to run on ethanol i think 1998 and newer correct me if im wrong but they are designed to run on ethanol blend my briggs lawn mower which i bought new 2 years ago didnt have any warnings about ethanol blends

Check out this month's issue of Consumer Reports. The local small engine repair shop here recommends ethanol free gas but it is expensive. An orifice/jet is an orifice/jet and is still prone to clogging whether pre 1988 or not.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

The builders of small cheap engines don't like E-10 because they can't get away with using the junk aluminum alloys that they could before, and the cheap coatings they put on things to mask the issue, this goes for the fuel lines they use too. E-10 has been around here from some time in the late 80's, there is nothing new about the issues related to it, but we survived, and except for the constant rants from those not so familiar with it it does not affect my life much. If small motor builders can?t figure it out it?s their own fault.

Running it dry doesn't do much, you need to drain the carb if you want it empty.

I don?t use a stabilizer, nor do I run it dry or empty the carbs, they may sit for years and rarely do I have an issue.


Putting the gas in a jar out in the sun does not create Phase separation, it only yellows due to the UV rays affecting some of the chemicals, many things do this. You need water in the fuel, then only the bottom layer will be ugly.

There must have been E-10 around in the 60?s too, it?s the only way I can explain having dirty gummed up carbs on engines that hadn?t been used in a long time. Every problem related to a carb is not caused by E-10.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

I don't know why some of you guys are so hellbent on accepting and defending ethanol in your gas? It is pretty well acknowledged that it does little for the environment but greatly increases the cost of your beef and your tortillas, all the while giving you p*ss poor fuel mileage. Those of you who say 'get over it', it is here to stay, do absolutely nothing to help change the acceptance of it.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

one thing ethanol burns really dry where as gasoline burns wet that is the only concern i have when running high amounts of ethanol

???????

 

[oldjeep]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

I don't know why some of you guys are so hellbent on accepting and defending ethanol in your gas? It is pretty well acknowledged that it does little for the environment but greatly increases the cost of your beef and your tortillas, all the while giving you p*ss poor fuel mileage. Those of you who say 'get over it', it is here to stay, do absolutely nothing to help change the acceptance of it.

True enough, but that is all political/economical and has nothing to do with ethanol damaging engines. Makes me laugh every time I see these threads.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

I don't know why some of you guys are so hellbent on accepting and defending ethanol in your gas? It is pretty well acknowledged that it does little for the environment but greatly increases the cost of your beef and your tortillas, all the while giving you p*ss poor fuel mileage. Those of you who say 'get over it', it is here to stay, do absolutely nothing to help change the acceptance of it.

No defense of the product, or the false reasons given us for its supposed need, only that there are so many misunderstandings and doom and gloom hype from snake oil sellers that really doesn't have much to do with fact or truth that something needs to be said. I’d rather not use it, but that becomes less of an option every day.

 

[bigdee]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

True enough, but that is all political/economical and has nothing to do with ethanol damaging engines. Makes me laugh every time I see these threads.

Scientific data supports the corrosive issue and the decreased mileage. Good news is stabilizer helps and ethanol is not bad in 2 stroke pre-mix because the oil serves the same function as a stabilizer.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

As I have said a million time before to "supposed boaters": 'The best way to avoid any fuel related problems, is to actually get out there and USE YOUR BOAT! Don't just sit at the dock drinking beer and call it boating. '

 

[jkust]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

I don't know why some of you guys are so hellbent on accepting and defending ethanol in your gas? It is pretty well acknowledged that it does little for the environment but greatly increases the cost of your beef and your tortillas, all the while giving you p*ss poor fuel mileage. Those of you who say 'get over it', it is here to stay, do absolutely nothing to help change the acceptance of it.

Well, as I am in the state that first jammed ethanol down our throats, I can say we don't like it and everything you say is correct. None of us want it but we are all forced to have it. Can't get political but it is a political issue like so many other issues that are masked as something else.

 

[roscoe]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

The builders of small cheap engines don't like E-10 because they can't get away with using the junk aluminum alloys that they could before, and the cheap coatings they put on things to mask the issue, this goes for the fuel lines they use too. E-10 has been around here from some time in the late 80's, there is nothing new about the issues related to it, but we survived, and except for the constant rants from those not so familiar with it it does not affect my life much. If small motor builders can?t figure it out it?s their own fault.

Running it dry doesn't do much, you need to drain the carb if you want it empty.

I don?t use a stabilizer, nor do I run it dry or empty the carbs, they may sit for years and rarely do I have an issue.


Putting the gas in a jar out in the sun does not create Phase separation, it only yellows due to the UV rays affecting some of the chemicals, many things do this. You need water in the fuel, then only the bottom layer will be ugly.

There must have been E-10 around in the 60?s too, it?s the only way I can explain having dirty gummed up carbs on engines that hadn?t been used in a long time. Every problem related to a carb is not caused by E-10.

Actually, ethanol was used in Ford's model T back in 1908.
Ethanol has come and gone several times in the last 100 years.

MPR: A timeline of the ethanol industry
And yes, it probably caused some problems back then too.

But engines and fuel systems, have changed over the decades. Much of the changes are caused by the mandated increased cafe standards. Many new weight saving materials don't hold up to the corrosive nature of ethanol.
So, when ethanol was re-introduced to modern fuel, and used in machines that were not designed for it, problems occurred.

As for the plugging/gumming in this thread, could have come from any gasoline based fuel.

 

[roscoe]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

I don't know why some of you guys are so hellbent on accepting and defending ethanol in your gas? It is pretty well acknowledged that it does little for the environment but greatly increases the cost of your beef and your tortillas, all the while giving you p*ss poor fuel mileage. Those of you who say 'get over it', it is here to stay, do absolutely nothing to help change the acceptance of it.

Actually costs more to produce and creates more imagined damage to the environment than pure gas. And yes, contains less energy and produces poorer fuel mileage.

And now that the ethanol subsides have been replaced with the Renewable Fuel Standard mandates, the corn/food prices will remain high, and put a further long term load on the resources of the country and its citizens.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

Scientific data supports the corrosive issue and the decreased mileage. Good news is stabilizer helps and ethanol is not bad in 2 stroke pre-mix because the oil serves the same function as a stabilizer.

That's real interesting. Back in December I half filled a liter water bottle with fresh premix and capped it. I set it aside, outside but not in direct sun light and happened to pick it up today. Looks just like it did when I filled it with no separation. Since it was fresh possibly it didn't have a chance to pick up any moisture. Realizing that phase separation has to have the elements to separate so if one is missing it doesn't happen.

I didn't see anything here about boats that sit in the marina or at anchor in the bay so I think I'll open a thread on that.

Mark

 

[ondarvr]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

Actually, ethanol was used in Ford's model T back in 1908.
Ethanol has come and gone several times in the last 100 years.

MPR: A timeline of the ethanol industry
And yes, it probably caused some problems back then too.

But engines and fuel systems, have changed over the decades. Much of the changes are caused by the mandated increased cafe standards. Many new weight saving materials don't hold up to the corrosive nature of ethanol.
So, when ethanol was re-introduced to modern fuel, and used in machines that were not designed for it, problems occurred.

As for the plugging/gumming in this thread, could have come from any gasoline based fuel.

I am fully aware of this, it was a sarcastic comment, intending to show there were carb issues long before this most recent E-10 debacle. People are so familiar with E-0 and its short comings that they are considered normal, E-10 has other issues and people have not changed their routines enough yet to compensate for them (real or imagined).

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

I don't know why some of you guys are so hellbent on accepting and defending ethanol in your gas? It is pretty well acknowledged that it does little for the environment but greatly increases the cost of your beef and your tortillas, all the while giving you p*ss poor fuel mileage. Those of you who say 'get over it', it is here to stay, do absolutely nothing to help change the acceptance of it.

Well, as I am in the state that first jammed ethanol down our throats, I can say we don't like it and everything you say is correct. None of us want it but we are all forced to have it. Can't get political but it is a political issue like so many other issues that are masked as something else.

Actually costs more to produce and creates more imagined damage to the environment than pure gas. And yes, contains less energy and produces poorer fuel mileage.

And now that the ethanol subsides have been replaced with the Renewable Fuel Standard mandates, the corn/food prices will remain high, and put a further long term load on the resources of the country and its citizens.

I agree with all you guys. Then there's E-85. I know someone that has a flex-fuel car and ran a tank of it. Never again they said. Ran like crap and the mileage was horrible. Sure, it's a lot cheaper at the pump. But in the long run given the poor gas mileage what are the real savings? Economically it's like shooting ourselves in the foot. Corn growers make a whole lot more selling their crops for fuel than anything else.

Anyway, I use premium in my toys and small engines. Around here it doesn't contain any ethanol. Whether it harms motors or not, I've heard arguments both ways. So, I chose not to use it. That way I don't have to worry about who's right and who's wrong....

 

[mscher]

Re: My Ethanol Experience.....yes here we go again, but it happened to me

JB, if you doubt it, take a clear pint jar full of 10% ethanol gas and set it out in the sun for a day. It will not even look like gasoline after 24 hours. It is called phase separation. Alcohol (water base) and gasoline (petroleum based) do not mix. They quickly form an emulsion which can plug things up. Just hope that they do not force us to accept 15% alcohol. You think you hear of problems now?

Phase separation only occurs, with an excess of water, induced into a ethanol/gasoline blend.

The ethanol will only absorb the water - to a point it becomes saturated, then it becomes and ethanol/water cloud, that will usually never combust. Excess water that is not absorbed, will go right to the bottom of the tanks, like the old days.

Fuel School: Phase Separation in Ethanol Blended Gasoline