One thing after another...

[bktheking]

Re: One thing after another...

I posted a PDF to test the stator, did you have a look at it? No fire on one bank, says to make up leads and switch sides to see if the spark moves banks. No DVA required!

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

Yeah i read it but I only swapped the brown and brown/yellow wires, I think its the charge coils, but then I only got intermittent spark on one cylinder, cant recall which one but it was only about half as often as it should be. It was pretty erratic so I figured I would get the meter and try more stuff. Ill see if I can swap the timer base leads but Im not real sure how to make jumpers for those recessed pins being that close together without the wires touching. Have you had to do this before and how did you do it?

 

[stingertrey]

Re: One thing after another...

Man I would drive myself nuts.. CANT stand letting something beat me lol

 

[bktheking]

Re: One thing after another...

Never done it before but I imagine an electronics store would sell leads to be able to do it.

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

Man I would drive myself nuts.. CANT stand letting something beat me lol

Yeah your telling me!!! I bought this thing in june and have taken it out successfully one time. What makes it all even worse is that this whole boat OWNING thing is new to me, so I'm learning as I go, but so far all I've learned is how to spend money and how to make my wife mad.

Give me a helicopter and I'll tear it down and build it back up in a day, but a johnson outboard... Don't hold your breath!

 

[nymack66]

Re: One thing after another...

The melted stuff you mentioned is a CLEAR indication your Stator is shot, its the varnish/epoxy melting , Its easily could have been detected had you use a flash-light to lookup under the flywheel. Reason I mentioned this is because on another blog a PRO give hell me for even mentioning this simple troubleshooting step.
I did NOT and it cost me dearly !
I have since arrive to the conclusion,If you have a electrical issue check your source and work your way out, Trigger,Stator,Pack,Wires,Coils,Plugs..
I have experienced the very pain you going through, hang in there you will nail it.
If you can afford it replace both the Trigger and Stator you will not regret it.
Good Luck , I am sorry I did not follow up on this post ..

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

I just tested the charging coils and they are reading 173 and 168 DVA. the book says minimum 150. Also the stator is reading 830 ohms and the range is 900 -1100. SIDENOTE: the chart that came with the DVA adapter gives a range of 735-935 Ohms for my motor. So far, everything has been within limits except the green wires from the timer base (off by .03 DVA) Even though these numbers are so close could that still be causing no spark?

 

[jonesg]

Re: One thing after another...

Thats just it... I didn't do anything at all. I made Zero changes to anything electrical.

but you did, you disconnected the kill circuit. it ran.
then you re-connected and it didn't.

I would still look there, is there any voltage in the kill wiring?
any voltage will blast the power pack.

I would not have changed the coils.

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

I have the kill switches disconnected all together right now. I pulled the flywheel to look at the trigger magnet and it matches the position for 1988 -2001 but its an 86, according to the 1986-87 picture it has spun about 180 degrees. But the inside doesn't look like it broke loose and its covered in some kind of epoxy that's hard as a rock so i am chipping away at that stuff and will put it back on tonite and hope that fixes it.

 

[bktheking]

Re: One thing after another...

How could it have spun by itself? Just curious.

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

BK Your guess is as good as mine.

The picture I have shows 4 flywheels and 3 of the 4 have roughly the same positioning as mine did. but they are not the same motor. The 4th one (mine) is the odd ball. The magnet has 2 hash marks that look to be about 160 degrees apart. The three others: 88-92 crossflow V6 150/175, 88-01 loop charged V6 185/200/225, and 88-99 loop charged V4 & V8 show the hashes at about the 2:00 - 2:30 mark and the other about the 6:30 - 7:00. Thats pretty close to right where mine were. The 1986-87 V4 & V6 looper (mine is an 86 200 looper V6 J200TXCDR) shows them at the 6:30 and 11:30. I JB welded it @ 5pm so I'll put it on in the morning and try that out. Its a shot in the dark... from the hip, so I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

[bktheking]

Re: One thing after another...

This motor sounds like a good candidate to an insurance claim LOL, honestly officer I had it running before they stole it good luck bro!

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

Yeah or a science experiment. How much TNT can I cram inside each cylinder?

I think I may have made a small step in the right direction this morning...
I am getting about 145ish volts to each coil. I had the spark checker hooked up and wasnt getting a solid spark (not real sure on that one) so i checked it at the orange wires from the power pack and thats where I got the 145. The book says I need >150 but my batteries haven't been charged in a couple weeks and I've been doing some cranking on it for a while so thats my guess, but its charging now while I wait on it to warm up outside. The coils all measure good on the resistance 230 pri. and .6 sec. I plan on re doing all the measurements on everything in about an hour or so. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[jonesg]

Re: One thing after another...

I have the kill switches disconnected all together right now. I pulled the flywheel to look at the trigger magnet and it matches the position for 1988 -2001 but its an 86, according to the 1986-87 picture it has spun about 180 degrees. But the inside doesn't look like it broke loose and its covered in some kind of epoxy that's hard as a rock so i am chipping away at that stuff and will put it back on tonite and hope that fixes it.

The GENUine shop manual will only show one engine, not a range of different models.


Keep sluggin, you'll get it sorted out.

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

The manual I bought from evinruderepair.com and it had 6 files. one was johnson/evinrude 48-235 hp repair/service manual.(not sure of the company, its a manual just scanned and turned into a pdf file) and the other 5 are generic like electrical troubleshooting for all makes. this is the one I've been using but it has 3 volumes and each goes into detail on each motor. Its been consistent with what I've read on here and the CDI pages.

After charging the battery a couple hours, I have about 170 DVA going to all the coils from the orange wires but still no spark on the spark checker. I even had the gap down to 1/4". I swapped the coils with the old ones and still nothing? At this point it has to be something dumb. 12 coils and all of them bad? not likely. WHAT GIVES???

 

[bktheking]

Re: One thing after another...

Maybe it's that melted stator causing the issue, I still think it's fooked.

Just cause it measures within spec doesn't mean it's good. It's melted, that can't be a good thing. That's like having a cracked coil measure within spec, it's still cracked and should be replaced.

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

Yeah I'm sure you are right. Its odd though that every link in the chain is working and producing the numbers it needs except the very last link. It seems like it would have to be the coils or plug wires. and there is no way that they are all bad. I would like to avoid dropping another 300 into this motor when I'm not 100% positive thats the problem. I know its A problem but right now I'm just focused on getting this thing running... at least enough to winterize it.

Here is a breakdown:

Stator= 835 Ohms and ~160 DVA (735-935 Ohms and 150V+ IAW CDI)
Timer base= 40.0 Ohms and ~0.85 DVA (35-45 Ohms and 0.5V+ IAW CDI)
Power packs= ~170 DVA to the coils (150V+ IAW my manual)
Coils= 0.6 Ohms on the sec. and 235 Ohms on the pri. (0.2 - 1.0 Ohms and 200-400 Ohms)

no apparent output on the spark tester ~0.00000

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

Can anyone tell me a good resistance for plug wires. I know they need some reistance but how much? even just a ball park number would help, are talking 1 -10 or is it up in the hundreds or even thousands? higher numbers seem like they would reduce the power of the spark but I'm really unsure on this matter. I measured the numbers on all 6 of mine and I'm they look a little odd to me.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: One thing after another...

Plug wires for outboards should be only metallic core, with close to zero ohms.

 

[KB_85_V20]

Re: One thing after another...

If that is true... would mine being between 500 and 550 ohms with one at 760 ohms be causing my problem? It would make sense because I remeasured everything today with full batteries and my numbers are all well within limits. would it be advisable to purchase new plug wires or is there another test (maybe a little more unconventional) I can perform to rule them out?