PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

[Bob_VT]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

http://www.maryville.govoffice2.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={5246A33B-1760-4E5D-BA45-2883C2C36115}

That took less than 30 secs......

Congratulations yes.... I too found that except I did not find a 30 second rule?????

That link doesn't mention the 30 second thing at all.

Thank you.... I did not think I was crazy I could not find the alleged 30 second drill!!

 

[lowkee]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

If I know my state... This single lake is a pilot and if it works out I suspect it will be applied on other bodies of water. (There was an effort a couple years ago to require everyone to wear them at all times but it went no where.)

The bold line is exactly what makes this a bad idea.

Passing laws in this manner is a common government tactic with a solid basis in psychology.

How it works:
You tell someone to do something completely unreasonable, they refuse. You then say "Okay, as a compromise, how about you do this instead". The likelihood of the person agreeing goes up drastically, as it seems much more reasonable as compared to the totally unreasonable demand. The demand is still unreasonable, but will likely get passed because people see it as an improvement compared to the last demand. It is a mind trick and used for nearly every freedom killing law.

 

[df909]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

I think it's a good idea. It will make sure everyone knows where their PFD is and how to use- maybe even a segway into a little safety talk about what to do for some common problems.

It's always a good idea to be prepared. I've seem many, many instances of overly confident people getting in over their heads and someone getting hurt as a result. I just don't understand why people complain so much as rules/laws intended to keep people safe, alive, and as a result it'll keep insurance costs down too.

 

[BTMCB]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

I think it's a good idea. It will make sure everyone knows where their PFD is and how to use- maybe even a segway into a little safety talk about what to do for some common problems.

It's always a good idea to be prepared. I've seem many, many instances of overly confident people getting in over their heads and someone getting hurt as a result. I just don't understand why people complain so much as rules/laws intended to keep people safe, alive, and as a result it'll keep insurance costs down too.

+1 - Well said.

 

[df909]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

Wow, that's a crazy article about the boat sinking- what a good example.

I think we should leave comments about the Partiot act and the like out of this thread as there are huge differences between a local lake requiring the proficient use of PFD's vs. the civil & constitutional rights of 300 millions or so people.

Last, other people uneccesarily injured does cost me money- whether it's from the insurance company rates, the cost of my county trauma center, or the cost of police/fire/EMS responding out and using resources for a rescue. If a healthy productive person is now brain damaged or severly disabled, they in many cases are now the responsibility of the state to care for. I don't mind providing the care, but I think it's prudent to take precautions to prevent an injury in the first place. If you die, it doesn't just hurt you...what would it do to your family?

 

[JoLin]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

Wow, that's a crazy article about the boat sinking- what a good example.

Good example of what?
In reading the article, it appears that PFD's were within easy reach and fully accessible. Also appears that those who died became caught under the canopy and/or panicked.

How does a 30-second rule apply, and how would it have made any difference?

 

[df909]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

Perhaps you missed this:"...causing its passengers to panic during a scramble for life vests." Also, the idea of the canopy trapping people was a "maybe", so it was speculation.

If the people knew where the PFD's were and how to don them, then there probably would not have been much panicing. People in a panic don't tend to see things very clearly or have the ability to use thought to get them out of whatever situation they're in.

If people have a problem with this rule and having to know how to use a PFD, then why carry them? Maybe we should petition the Coast Guard to relax boater safety laws and get rid of them.

Training, however brief, saves lives.

 

[JoLin]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

Perhaps you missed this:"...causing its passengers to panic during a scramble for life vests." Also, the idea of the canopy trapping people was a "maybe", so it was speculation.

If the people knew where the PFD's were and how to don them, then there probably would not have been much panicing. People in a panic don't tend to see things very clearly or have the ability to use thought to get them out of whatever situation they're in.

If people have a problem with this rule and having to know how to use a PFD, then why carry them? Maybe we should petition the Coast Guard to relax boater safety laws and get rid of them.

Training, however brief, saves lives.

Sorry, but I still don't see it. A 'scramble' to get life jackets does not equal an inability to find them or grab them. Given that numerous PFD's were floating in the water, I'd assume they were pretty much in the clear. A second report says the following:

Witnesses said they saw the craft take on water at the rear and passengers panicking as they rushed to get life preservers

Again, nothing indicated that they weren't accessible.

Finally, I haven't seen anyone suggest that current rules be relaxed. The disagreement (including mine) revolves around whether or not we need yet another layer of law dealing with PFD use. I contend we don't- current rules are adequate. Enforcement and education are what's needed.

I'll let it go at this, I think. I don't think I'll change your mind, and doubt that you'll change mine.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

Guys, I don't know that this has been published (30 second rule) yet, they are putting it in to effect this year and the boating year has barely started. There is a sign saying "Boaters must be able to don their PDFs in 30 seconds, keep them accessible." or words to that effect. (That is what the local DRN guys have told me.) Given how so many dislike it here I suspect others won't care for it and we will hear more about it. I could be wrong though because as I said, families seem to like the rules that have been put on the lake. It was a parents group that pushed for the speed limits and size restrictions and got them.

Also have to correct myself, I said 24' limit and its a 28' limit.

Well that is a good idea but as of now it is a suggestion/recommendation and does not appear as a rule or law.

People are so reactive to rumors and rumblings..... if it ever gets published it will something you have to abide by but until that time I consider it in the same category as the sky is falling and can not see getting folks geared up about it.

Congratulations to the 33 people who thought it was real and voted upon rumor

 

[df909]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

Reading JoLin's last post made me realize something... Most of us here are serious boaters, maybe even professional. As we all know there are too many people that take the boat out three times a year that are dangerous, don't know the rules of the water, and don't know what to do in an emergency. I imagine the 30-second rule, if it's real or not, is intended for the people that don't know much about boating and are the ones that take 35 minutes at the ramp and need to be reminded about running the blower, not swimming near the turning prop, and not beaching a boat at 15mph under full power.

Those of us that are serious and safe get lumped into the general "boating" catagory that includes everyone.

 

[JoLin]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

Read further down where witnesses said passengers were in a panick trying to find the life jackets and get them on.

I'm probably just missing it, but maybe you can point it out. I've read it a couple times and can't zero in on what you're saying. I see that people panicked, and I see that people were rushing/scrambling to get life jackets.

I see nothing that implies people were panicking because they couldn't find or get to the PFD's.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

Heck anybody will panic in a sinking vessel! I have been on a similar "duck" called a MAB (Mobile assault bridge) that sunk and it went down like a stone! It was not expected and we all had that panic feeling.

Problem is some people lock up PFD's and store them so deep you can not get to them fast..... yes they must be accessible

 

[skargo]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

How come when I am out on the Chesapeake bay, 90% of the people out there DON'T wear their PFD??? I laugh at them, and feel a little sorry for them, just like I do when I see people riding a motorcycle without a helmet.

My wife and I, and any passengers wear ours 100% of the time that the boat is in motion. You can take them off when we are on the hook or at the dock.
Do people REALLY belief they are that invincible?

Still, I think the government should stay out of the safety business. Just make these people's estate pick up the tab for when they need to be scraped up/plucked out of the water, whatever.

I have some auto-inflators, and you forget they are on.

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

Humm....wonder if it takes more or less than 30 seconds to hit the water where your ejected from the boat at a high rate of speed when another party broadsides you?

I'm all for letting people make up their own minds as to wear a PFD or not as long as they are forced to pay for any services they require as a result of their actions. The 1-2 days of search and recovery for the body should be billed to and paid by the operator of the boat.

I think you have it right.

 

[2ndtry]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

Rule in NC, everybody under 13 has one on, everybody has one available, and it cannot be "stowed". This may be open to interpretation, but I always take them out of the locker before we shove off. Perhaps the "30 second rule" is just a way of making the accessible part less ambiguous.

 

[Nautical Nate]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

I frequent Mozingo Lake all summer long, I have no problem with the speed limit and the length restriction. 40 mph is plenty fast since the lake isnt all that wide and you have to manuver around many many boats on a busy weekend. I have been on the lake when you cant go over 15mph because of the amount of boats,(4th of july weekend). The life jacket rule, IMO is completly wrong, In the state of Missouri you have the option to wear or no to wear as long as you are over the age of 7. The 30 second rule is a tacky attempt for the Maryville public Saftey to generate revenue. As far as it being more bark than bite, I will be doing drills with all of the passengers in my boat. I see many tickets being issued. They will enforce this for the revenue purpose more than the saftey. just my .02

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

If the process is set up for a warning first ticket a second time, it's purpose is not to generate revenue. Despite all the paranoia and conspiracy theories, local government agencies don't work that way. And LEO's don't work on commission. If they want to raise money, they raise various user fees and excise taxes rather than by inventing traps.

 

[lowkee]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

If the process is set up for a warning first ticket a second time, it's purpose is not to generate revenue. Despite all the paranoia and conspiracy theories, local government agencies don't work that way. And LEO's don't work on commission. If they want to raise money, they raise various user fees and excise taxes rather than by inventing traps.

I'd like to see one shred of backing to this statement.

Local government works its budget based on average income from fines, which means going under that amount is frowned upon in order to remain on budget. If you remove fines and penalties, you remove crime, which removes cops. Cops indeed work on commission, commission of crimes. You have less stupid laws, you have less money sucking civil servants enforcing them, costs go down, people are harassed less.

The comment earlier where stupid laws like this aren't comparable to freedom killers like the Patriot Act, you are sorely mistaken. Laws like this affect everyone, not just the 300MM Americans. It gives LEO permission to board your boat without cause, order you around and inspect compartments at any time, as many times as they want, all day, every day.

Laws without limits can be abused without limit, for extra budgeting income, harassment, even if they just don't like your t-shirt.

 

[skargo]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

If the process is set up for a warning first ticket a second time, it's purpose is not to generate revenue. Despite all the paranoia and conspiracy theories, local government agencies don't work that way. And LEO's don't work on commission. If they want to raise money, they raise various user fees and excise taxes rather than by inventing traps.

WOW, I mus respectfully disagree!

 

[skargo]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

Mods: Looks like we are getting a fair bit off track here and its turning into politics. Would you be so kind as to close the thread.

Thanks

I thought it was sort of political from the second choice you listed in the poll,m surprised it lasted this long