Testing this weekend

kenmyfam

kenmyfam

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Re: Testing this weekend

Have to agree with not drilling jets !!!! and a new mechanic !!!!
 
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Dienewk

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Re: Testing this weekend

thanks willyclay i can see why the correct info is so important and i have been a bit vague, i have also been trying not to embaress myself on the forums being i kinda know screw all about boats.

i sat down with the other half and we went through all the things that have happened with the boat so.....

the history
it is a 1977 evinrude 115hp v4 2 stroke
bought the boat last season, it hasnt ever got out of the hole consistantly
sometimes it is just fine, other times it bogs and stalls.
put it in for a service locally and they tuned it but it still stalled and carried on, i took it back and they couldnt get it to idle any higher so they replaced the screw shown (pic attached http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq332/dienewk/SDC10446.jpg ) with a longer one, idled it up and also done a compression test and this is when it was discovered number 3 had very little compression.
These guys where assholes and didnt really want to see me or the boat again they mainly deal with new stuff and had little interest with the old girl.

by this time summer was over so i decided to take it to my home town (4 hours away) this is the mechanic that rebuilt the engine, he stripped down the motor, honed cylinders, replaced 1 piston, and a full rings set serviced the water pump and tuned the motor, the boat was only tank tested and was running well in the tank.

I brang the boat home in the winter and it was shedded till my recent posts.

I took the boat out and it was still a dog and stalling when trying to het out of the hole, i called the mechanic that done the rebuild he told me to bring it back and he hadnt done the carbs but with a 4 hour trip each way i got it done here,
These guys cleaned and serviced the carbs, as i said before, he did mention something about drilling out the jet if it was blocked but i wasnt sure what he really meant (you guys seem to understand that part and it doesnt sound good).
the boat as i said was idling better but still stalling a bit, it may pull up fine then i will idle while the kids get ready, hit it and its stalls, if i use the warm up lever to rev it up let it settle then go again it will be ok.

i hope i havent confused things with my bits and pieces of info and i hope this long winded explanation helps.
 
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Willyclay

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Sep 8, 2006
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3,264
Re: Testing this weekend

Thanks for taking the time to elaborate on your motor's history. A four-hour trip each way to a mechanic is brutal. You already have some of the "forum's best" posting in your thread. I'm very hopeful they can provide you a clear path to saving that motor. My advice to you is not to run it anymore until a well-defined troubleshooting process is laid out. Dhadley's warning about the lack of oil due to clogged carburetor jets may have been the original cause of your problems and also may have come too late to prevent damage to your rebuilt motor. Can you get compression readings on each cylinder and post them?
 
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Dienewk

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Re: Testing this weekend

Willyclay said:
Thanks for taking the time to elaborate on your motor's history. A four-hour trip each way to a mechanic is brutal. You already have some of the "forum's best" posting in your thread. I'm very hopeful they can provide you a clear path to saving that motor. My advice to you is not to run it anymore until a well-defined troubleshooting process is laid out. Dhadley's warning about the lack of oil due to clogged carburetor jets may have been the original cause of your problems and also may have come too late to prevent damage to your rebuilt motor. Can you get compression readings on each cylinder and post them?
Click to expand...

i dont have a compression tester but i can buy one if required. i will slip out this arvo and see what i can find

i will also post a pic of the nackered piston (i kept it)
 
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emdsapmgr

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Dec 9, 2005
Messages
11,551
Re: Testing this weekend

You may have a fuel delivery issue at idle. Just before you hit the throttle, have someone prime the fuel hose bulb, repeatedly. This will force fuel around the fuel pump into the carb bowls. Once full of fuel, the engine may take off without bogging. Try this and see what happens. Usually fuel issues are more of a problem at top end-but yours is at idle.
 
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Dienewk

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Re: Testing this weekend

emdsapmgr said:
You may have a fuel delivery issue at idle. Just before you hit the throttle, have someone prime the fuel hose bulb, repeatedly. This will force fuel around the fuel pump into the carb bowls. Once full of fuel, the engine may take off without bogging. Try this and see what happens. Usually fuel issues are more of a problem at top end-but yours is at idle.
Click to expand...

Thanks emdsapmgr, i did try this one and the fuel bulb was as hard as so that didnt make a diffrence i also tried fklicking the choke on as per someone elses suggestion but that caused it to stall instantly.
 
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Willyclay

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Re: Testing this weekend

Dienewk said:
ok i ran a compression test and it was 120 all cyclinders give or take 2 or 3 psi .
Click to expand...

Excellent compression readings and cylinder balance indicates a motor in sound mechanical condition. Hopefully, the forum experts can solve the apparent fuel delivery issue. I saw the picture of the piston removed from No. 3 cylinder. Looks badly scored to me which seems to verify the lack of lubrication like Dhadley warned. That brings us back to the clogged jets issue in the carbs. In today's world of ethanol/gasoline blends, your 30+ year old motor could have fuel lines deteriorating internally and deposting crud in the carbs/jets/etc. Before touching the carbs, it may be worth it to replace the old hoses with the new, alcohol resistant stuff.
 
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Dienewk

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Re: Testing this weekend

Willyclay said:
Ex. Before touching the carbs, it may be worth it to replace the old hoses with the new, alcohol resistant stuff.
Click to expand...

the fuel lines, i can see, he has replaced with the carb rebuild is there others??
 
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Dienewk

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Re: Testing this weekend

i will drop it out to the mechanic again and post the result
 
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Willyclay

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Re: Testing this weekend

Dienewk said:
the fuel lines, i can see, he has replaced with the carb rebuild is there others??
Click to expand...

The only other one would be the supply line/hose with the primer bulb from the fuel tank.

I looked at the BRP online parts diagram for your motor and was puzzled by the fact they only list an idle orifice plug/jet for the upper carb. My understanding is the upper carb only serves the two upper cylinders. Maybe one of the experts can explain how the idle system works for the lower cylinders. Here's the link to BRP's website: http://epc.brp.com/login.aspx?ReturnUrl=/default.aspx?brands=ej&lang=E&brands=ej&lang=E

Also, I have a non-factory service manual that covers that model motor through 1975 which I believe have the same carburetors as yours. It contains five pages of how-to, pictures and diagrams on rebuilding those carbs. If you are interested, please send me Private Message with your email address and I will reply with a scanned pdf copy.

Perhaps you would like to try your hand at carb rebuilding before packing the boat and motor off on a another four-hour, one-way trip to your mechanic. Good luck!
 
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Dhadley

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Re: Testing this weekend

Looks like the old damaged piston was running in cylinder with water in it. Did you figure out where the water came from?

What spark plugs are you running?
 
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Dienewk

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Re: Testing this weekend

Dhadley said:
Looks like the old damaged piston was running in cylinder with water in it. Did you figure out where the water came from?

What spark plugs are you running?
Click to expand...

called the mechanic whoe rebuilt it dhadley and there was no signs of water when he done the work.

I also called the mechanic that just rebuilt the carbs(he is local so no 4 hour trip there) and he is a little stumped as everthing balanced up fine and ran in the tank just great he is getting back to me.

the supply line house from the fuel tank looks old it is OMC brand as is the tank so i am prepared to replace both of these, i can get a house to suit evinrue but is there anything special about tanks for these old girls i need to know?




spark plugs currently in it are ngk br9hs 10 i also bought a set of buz8h but i havent run these as they look wierd lol (not like a normal spark plug) and they worried me they might not be the right ones.

right or wrong plugs??
 
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Dhadley

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Feb 4, 2001
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Re: Testing this weekend

You need to get the NGKs out of there and get with the right Champions. Hard to believe the guy who rebuilt the motor would not put the recommended plugs in. But it also sounds like he rebuilt the powerhead without cleaning the carbs. Hope he at least put in a water pump.

Just keep an eye on #3 cylinder. Sure looks like water (small amount) to me.......
 
kenmyfam

kenmyfam

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Re: Testing this weekend

Change the plugs to Champions !!!!
There is a difference !!!
Just my 2 cents though
 
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Dienewk

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Re: Testing this weekend

kenmyfam said:
Change the plugs to Champions !!!!
There is a difference !!!
Just my 2 cents though
Click to expand...

Answered my question before i asked it Kenmyfam

what is the diffrence to be seen in the change of plugs?

i will head out and find the local champion dealer in town today....

any tips on a new fuel tank?

Yup Water pump was replaced in rebuild,

115 1973 - 1979 QL16V Surface Gap or QL77JC4 .030 should be mine

surface or normal?
 
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