The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

[wbeaton]

My local marina told me Yesterday that they just received notice that Canada will no longer allow the sale of NEW two stroke outboards as of Dec 31 2011. According to him, the Canadian government is following suit with the US EPA. Anyone know more about this? If this is true I wonder what this means for Evinrude.

 

[steelespike]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Are they banning 2 stroke outboards or motors that don't meet C.A.R.B. standards.
The Etec 2 stroke motor meets or exceeds all emission standards.I believe there are other direct injection 2 strokes that do so as well.

 

[wbeaton]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Its not a ban on two strokes. It was said to me simply that it was going to be unlawful to sell new two stroke outboards, but it would make more sense that its two strokes that don't meet CARB standards. At the time we were talking about small kicker motors so it would make sense that its regarding carbed two strokes and not DFI. I was so taken back at the time and heading out the door that I didn't ask many questions. It wasn't until the reality set in that I thought I better get more information. Still, no small two stroke outboards will be a serious problem for me at work unless they can engineer a 6 hp to push like a 15 hp.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Here are the actual regs. in all their glory. They don't say anything specifically about 2-strokes.
http://canadagazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2011/2011-02-16/html/sor-dors10-eng.html

 

[Silvertip]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

I would also think the Canadian Government would have enough wisdom to not put a large segment of Bombardier's business (a Canadian Corporation) out of business since they build Evinrude outboards, SkiDoo snowmobiles, Jet Skis, etc.

 

[v_fourmax]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Just a personal opinion but I think that carbed 2 strokes will be the ones being phased out as not meeting the new emission standards. Isn't already illegal in a place like California to sell new carbed 2 strokes? I do not see where Mercury, Evinrude and Yamaha would have spent the mega dollars developing the motors like the optimax or e-tec if sales would be illegal within a few years.

I would not be shocked to see any outboards smaller than about 70 hp to become basically a fourstroke only affair though. All depends on whether the market and profit margins would justify producing the higher tech 2 strokes for that market.

Many times what is available to the public is what meets the laws and the companies can make money on. I just can't see a large enough market for the small outboards as the performance issue of a few miles per hour difference becomes a moot point in the two stroke versus 4 stoke wars. Weight would be the biggest issue in the smaller market but the 4 strokes have gotten much lighter than when originally produced.

Also with many of the major brands of boats now being owned or paired to a particuliar outboard brand would not take a lot to slightly change the hulls design to offset the added 4 strokes weight.

 

[steelespike]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Etec makes a 15ho (high output)motor based on the 25/30 motor.
so pretty heavy but an approved 2 stroke 15.

 

[JB]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Why worry? None of the new carbed 2 stroke small outboards are in the same class as the JohnnyRudes of the 60s to 80s.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Dang I love rumors

 

[wbeaton]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Weight would be the biggest issue in the smaller market but the 4 strokes have gotten much lighter than when originally produced.

Weight is a huge factor when talking about kicker motors. We use mostly 15 hp two stroke Yamaha's at work. At +70 lbs they are about as heavy as most people can comfortably carry up and down steep river banks. The four stroke 15 hp weighs 115 lbs and is much too heavy for that.

 

[pecheux]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Why worry? None of the new carbed 2 stroke small outboards are in the same class as the JohnnyRudes of the 60s to 80s.

Do you mean less water polution ? Like perhaps more efficient in burning more fuel/oil mix prior to exhaust ? Tx

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Do you mean less water polution ? Like perhaps more efficient in burning more fuel/oil mix prior to exhaust ? Tx

I think that what JB is saying is, that since this only impacts the sale of NEW two-strokes...it doesn't really matter to many folks who prefer to run more reliable, and less complex two-strokes built in the years mentioned.

I'm just curious why he didn't include the late 50s

 

[tater76]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

I have heard this rumor for 10 plus years, it was said to affect ALL 2 stroke engines, lawnmowers, OB's, scooters, motorcycles, etc.. Like Bob said " gotta love rumors"

 

[5150abf]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Here in Indiana they don't even emission test cars so I am sure unless this is federal it won't affect me for a very long time and as stated the new 2 strokes are as clean or cleaner than the 4 strokes so I don't see how they can get rid of them.

 

[wbeaton]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

I have heard this rumor for 10 plus years, it was said to affect ALL 2 stroke engines, lawnmowers, OB's, scooters, motorcycles, etc.. Like Bob said " gotta love rumors"

I think you guys are missing the point. This isn't exactly a rumour. My dealer will no longer be selling new small two stroke motors as of 2012. Its not that he doesn't want to its that he will not be legally allowed too.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

I think you guys are missing the point. This isn't exactly a rumour. My dealer will no longer be selling new small two stroke motors as of 2012. Its not that he doesn't want to its that he will not be legally allowed too.

He would be allowed to sell small ETEC 2-strokes, since they meet all the regulations.

 

[wbeaton]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Ok, but the only ETECH under 25 hp is a 177-183 lbs 15 hp. I hardly consider that an option when looking for a portable motor.

 

[ziemann]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

It's not rocket science. Your choice new will be a low emission direct injected 2 strokes or a 4 stroke. And it is likely that they will not meet your needs based upon your application. I suppose you could always buy extra now and stock up on them...hehe.

For your application, I would buy used 2 strokes- they will be available forever used.

 

[wbeaton]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

It's not rocket science. Your choice new will be a low emission direct injected 2 strokes or a 4 stroke. And it is likely that they will not meet your needs based upon your application. I suppose you could always buy extra now and stock up on them...hehe.

For your application, I would buy used 2 strokes- they will be available forever used.

I'm not looking to be patronized. I understand my options if this really is the end of light weight carbed two strokes. I was just hoping to get some further info from anyone in the know. Clearly, that person isn't here. Purchasing won't allow me to buy used outboards. So yes, laugh if you will, but I will "stock up" on two strokes if I have to.

 

[ziemann]

Re: The End of Two Stroke Outboards - 2011 12 31

Yawn...
Considering how often this gets beat to death....the knowledge you seek is here if you actually make the effort and look for it. It's apathy....use your search function and be enlighted (not patronized).