Tow Vehicle

[lncoop]

Re: Tow Vehicle

Okay, I have 3.42s, not 4.10s. Boy was my assumption off!

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: Tow Vehicle

Okay, I have 3.42s, not 4.10s. Boy was my assumption off!

Well that could account for some issues. The TB has a differance of about 1200lbs, I think, in the towing capacity from the 3.42 and the 3.73s. Tuning could still help.

 

[lncoop]

Re: Tow Vehicle

Anyone know how feasible it would be to switch to 3.73s?

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Tow Vehicle

Anyone know how feasible it would be to switch to 3.73s?

Gears and setup kit would cost $200-300 per axle + $200-$300 per axle in labor. It can be cheaper to just get axles with the right ratios from the junkyard, especially if it is a 2wd.

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: Tow Vehicle

Its a Z71, so that means 4x4. You would have to do both axles. Probably closer to $800 to $1000 per axle. Realistically, I have not seen it any cheaper than that in quite a while. It will also drop your gas mileage by a tick or 2.

You will also have to tune it for the new axle ratio, so your speedo matches. Honestly, I think I might try tuning first. You might be surprised what that will do to help.

 

[lncoop]

Re: Tow Vehicle

Okay. Definitely don't want to drop a couple grand on it. So you think tuning might cut down on the searching? It just irritates me that it searches that much. At the outside that barge and the stuff I keep in it might weigh 3500 pounds, and I doubt it's that heavy.

 

[jkust]

Re: Tow Vehicle

Anyone know how feasible it would be to switch to 3.73s?

Very feasable, but doing both axles it's not cheap. The bummer is the upgrade to either the 3.73 or 4.10 and the locking rear differential on GM's that offer it was a few hundred dollars when new. When I was shopping for a tow vehicle, I specifically wanted all the towing related options only to discover very few actually checked them off when ordering. Then calling around to private parties and dealers to ask them, they thought I was crazy for caring about locking differentials and axle ratios. My thought was who buys a new truck and doesn't spend a few hundred bucks for the things that make a truck live up to its full potential. That's why I went with the Rainier because it was all standard.

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: Tow Vehicle

Okay. Definitely don't want to drop a couple grand on it. So you think tuning might cut down on the searching? It just irritates me that it searches that much. At the outside that barge and the stuff I keep in it might weigh 3500 pounds, and I doubt it's that heavy.

You shouldnt have any issues towing 3500lbs. I think your truck is rated at a whole lot more. I have seen 4 cylinder minivans tow 3500lb boats. Not that it is safe, but they do it. They can change a lot of things in your tranny to accomodate towing. Like I said, my buddy has a grossly underpowered Grand Cherokee that he tows my boat with on occasion. Programming made a huge differance. It no longer keeps shifting up and down all the time like it did before. And he just picked up a premade handheld. If you dont tow a lot, a handheld might be a better option, so you can put the tow tune in when you are towing, and pull it out when you are not. You dont have any modifications, so a handheld should work just fine for your application.

I got a custom tune because the guy said any time I needed changes to just bring it in and for $100 he would modify it, and I got a package deal when I tuned more than one vehicle. He has since moved, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. LOL

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: Tow Vehicle

Very feasable, but doing both axles it's not cheap. The bummer is the upgrade to either the 3.73 or 4.10 and the locking rear differential on GM's that offer it was a few hundred dollars when new. When I was shopping for a tow vehicle, I specifically wanted all the towing related options only to discover very few actually checked them off when ordering. Then calling around to private parties and dealers to ask them, they thought I was crazy for caring about locking differentials and axle ratios. My thought was who buys a new truck and doesn't spend a few hundred bucks for the things that make a truck live up to its full potential. That's why I went with the Rainier because it was all standard.

Exactly. I cant believe nobody had a clue as to what options these trucks had when we were looking. Oh, I think the one we have has a V6. Not likely, because they used an inline 6. Then I looked at it and it not only had a V8, but also had the 3.73s. It is an LT, and came with every imaginable option, including the DVD system for my daughter. The kicker was, at the time, gas prices seemed to be going up, so we got it cheaper than they were asking for 6 cylinder base models. And it was the only one in town, or anywhere in Florida for that matter, with the exact options I was looking for. LOL The wife wanted her air conditioned seats back, but oh well. You gotta give someplace.

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Tow Vehicle

Shouldn't even need the 3.73's for towing 3500 lbs with a v8. I realize its apples to oranges, but my 1/2 ton has 3.21's and tows 6K like it is not there.

 

[lncoop]

Re: Tow Vehicle

The only caveat is the fact that it's a barge, which means it tows like a giant sail. I've towed heavier loads and experienced less searching. I'm kinda digging the idea of a handheld. Is Superchips the way to go, or is there a better choice? Also, if I were to use one, what gear would I tow in? Right now I use D in Tow/Haul mode. Would I continue to do that when using a handheld?

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Tow Vehicle

The only caveat is the fact that it's a barge, which means it tows like a giant sail. I've towed heavier loads and experienced less searching. I'm kinda digging the idea of a handheld. Is Superchips the way to go, or is there a better choice? Also, if I were to use one, what gear would I tow in? Right now I use D in Tow/Haul mode. Would I continue to do that when using a handheld?

My dad has the same pontoon as you, which I've towed with both my truck and his Lexus LX470. Neither of them really cared about pulling the boat, only issue was the tippy scissor trailer.

While I agree they handle nasty in a sidewind, there's not that much more wind resistance when towing than any other sort of boat.

If the tuner fixes up your tranny shifts then it sounds great, if it's just amping up the motor - then not such a good idea on an older truck.

 

[jkust]

Re: Tow Vehicle

Exactly. I cant believe nobody had a clue as to what options these trucks had when we were looking. Oh, I think the one we have has a V6. Not likely, because they used an inline 6. Then I looked at it and it not only had a V8, but also had the 3.73s. It is an LT, and came with every imaginable option, including the DVD system for my daughter. The kicker was, at the time, gas prices seemed to be going up, so we got it cheaper than they were asking for 6 cylinder base models. And it was the only one in town, or anywhere in Florida for that matter, with the exact options I was looking for. LOL The wife wanted her air conditioned seats back, but oh well. You gotta give someplace.

Ha Ha, I literally never found a single of the dozens of Envoy's and TB's (even the rare LT's) with all the towing stuff and I am in MN where everyone has a boat or snowmobiles to tow. I only discovered after exhausting my search that the Buick version came with a V8 in the short wheel base as an option and most everything was included. The only major options were AWD, Moon Roof and Navigation. Although I did come across one withouth heated seats so wasn't sure about that. We don't have the navigation but I didn't care for it because you don't get the 6 disc changer and you can't listen to a cd and use the navigation disc since they share the single cd slot plus I already had a Garmin. The unintendended consequense of Buying a Buick is that the demographic was almost 60 years old for the Rainier so the back seats and interior were always unused/unabused since 60 year olds don't tote their kids around like we do. The owner never towed with it either.
Also, I am one of the fools who towed 4000lbs with my minivan (before I owned the suv) and it did ok in certain instances like long hauls and dry ramps. When you really get down and look at a minivan/car frame compared to a truck frame it really hits you why a truck of any kind is so much more capable. I wonder how the new breed of GM crossovers like the Traverse et al will tow in real life after they have a few miles on them.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Tow Vehicle

Personally, I would never use a tuner. I used to work for Delco and spent some time out at the Arizona GM proving grounds when it was still there. I spoke with the guys that designed and set up the ECMs. They all had a dim view of the aftermarket tuning market. Their opinion was that the aftermarket crowd doesn't have all the knowledge to know what settings that would be harmful in the long run. They gave me an example of someone richening up the fuel injection in order to get a little more power. Problem was that the O2 sensors would get clobbered if the setting was kept for a period of time. They of course had to do the settings more conservative because of warranty and emission standards but the gist of the conversation is that unless you knew the whole system intimately, there is no way you can properly make the right settings overall.

 

[lncoop]

Re: Tow Vehicle

My dad has the same pontoon as you, which I've towed with both my truck and his Lexus LX470. Neither of them really cared about pulling the boat, only issue was the tippy scissor trailer.

While I agree they handle nasty in a sidewind, there's not that much more wind resistance when towing than any other sort of boat.

If the tuner fixes up your tranny shifts then it sounds great, if it's just amping up the motor - then not such a good idea on an older truck.

Seems like a pontoon boat would encounter a lot more wind resistance than a bowrider, bass boat, etc. due to it's significantly higher profile, greater size, flatter front and boxier (not even sure that's a word) shape. That's my very unscientific opinion, but I can confirm that I have an easier time towing heavier but less aerodynamically challenged loads, including my buddy's 20' Ranger fish and ski. From what I've read it looks like the tuners (at least the ones I've looked at) do adjust shift points among other things. Still trying to weigh pros and cons, which is not easy given the fact that I have no knowledge of them. Looks like it might be worth a shot though.

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Tow Vehicle

One more - non tuner option. It's more work, but it appears that there are several aftermarket shift kits available for your trans (you would have to verify the model first)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BMM-70360

 

[dutchdog]

Re: Tow Vehicle

I had a 2001 1500 Z71. I towed a fifthwheel camper with a 17 foot boat behind the camper. I used tow-haul mode and dropped tranny to 3rd gear. At 65 mph the tach showed around 2500 rpm. Never let me down. Total length was 68 ft.

 

[windsors03cobra]

Re: Tow Vehicle

Its hunting because its in overdrive it whould be in 3rd gear and it will be fine, you are way over the limit for turning OD off on the vehicle with a boat weight of 3500 thats significantly more when the sail boats pushing air.
Lock out OD and you're gonna be worlds better.

I'm not going to go as far as to say you need a full out dyno tune (thats the best way) but will say if you find a good person who knows what they are doing (they are EVERYWHERE for the LSX V8's) you can easily get 25 horsepower, torque management (which is garbage) which controls your electronic throttle toned down, and better fuel economy with a pretty standard tune. People do it all the time. I would start at HPTuners and look for a local boy and plan to spend atleast $300 as thats what the handheld programmer runs and you usually have to buy that.
Diablosport and SCT are some more good tuner brands and have somethign available for darn near every make and model. Hypertech i think they are still in the 90's with eproms but I dunno.
My Mustang Cobra is dyno tuned with SCT software and is @ 496 horsepower and 474 ft lbs of torque. 4.6 litre
I gave $550, $300 for handheld, $150 for tuning and dyno runs.

 

[lncoop]

Re: Tow Vehicle

Okay, I'll tow it in third this weekend. Sounds like that's what I need to do. I'm thinking about trying out a Hypertech handheld too. I had a long conversation with a guy who sells them locally and with a guy at Hypertech and it sounds like it's at least worth a shot. They have a thirty day return policy, so if I don't like it I can give it back no problem. Thanks everyone. You've been really helpful (except for the guy with that stupid Tundra).

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: Tow Vehicle

For short trips that will work great. If you have to take it a long way, you will feel that in your pocket. That return policy sounds like a perfect way to give it a try. I surely would.