Winterization Questions

[akincer]

So, I bought my boat in the spring and this is the first boat I've owned. It is a Merc 4.3 carbed with and Alpha 1 GenII sterndrive. Although I'm generally inclinded to do most basic maintenance myself, I was a little nervous about winterizing because I didn't want to make mistake. A local reputable boat shop does "basic winterization" (drain and fog, no antifreeze needed). I changed the oil, filled and stabilzied the gas tank and took it to the boat shop for winterization. I brought the boat home and decided that since it winterized I would take some time and sort of learn how to winterize for next year. With manual in hand, I started locating the drain plugs. To my surprise when I pulled the block drain plugs, a fair bit of water came out! Probably at least a quart. So my question is, was this drained improperly or is this just the water that hangs out in the nooks and crannies and then worked it's way down during the ride home? If it's normal residual water, then that would be a good argument for using antifreeze.

I decided that I was going to use antifreeze becasue of the amount of water that came out. I put all the plugs back in and unbolted the thermostat housing. This housing has 6 hoses and 2 wires attached to it. It didn't seem like, it would be practical to move the housing far enough out of the way to be able to pour antifreeze in it without damaging something. So, I removed all 6 hoses (that was a pain) and both wires and took the housing completely off. I poured antifreeze in until it overflowed (about 2 gallons). I let it sit for a couple of hours and then drained all the antifreeze again. Is removing the hoses from the tstat housing and then removing the housing the only way to get antifreeze in or is there an easier way?

Any other thoughts on steps that I missed??

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Winterization Questions

They did it wrong, or didn't do it at all and just charged you. There should be not be a quart of water coming out.

I prefer to pull the plugs and leave them out for the winter and use no antifreeze.

 

[akincer]

Re: Winterization Questions

I guess I will stop in and see if they have any thoughts on how that might have happened. Anybody have ideas on adding antifreeze through the tstat housing? Is there an easier way other than taking all 6 hoses and 2 wires off?

 

[jackd1023]

Re: Winterization Questions

Air does not expand and freeze, liquid ( water or diluted antifreeze) can. The issue is if there is ANY water left in engine and you add RV antifreeze it dilutes and raises the freeze point of the antifreeze. Make sure all or most of water is our per the manual, leave hoses and plugs out. I would also check oil, drive lube and pull drive to check u-joints, gimbal bearing, alignment and also bellows

 

[bonzoscott]

Re: Winterization Questions

Generally there are 4-5 drains on the motor. Two center on the block just above the oil pan. One on each exhaust manifold, and if you have a power steering cooler, one there. Pull them out and poke 2 inch of wire in there to free any rust. Lower the out drive and you're good. No antifreeze unless it makes you feel good. Determine if you have a power steering cooler by the manual you were suggested. Pull hoses and dump water.

 

[redmen62]

Re: Winterization Questions

You really don't need to pull the plugs and drain it. I use a flush kit that I made with a tank any y valve that hooks up to the ear muffs for running in the driveway. I do several boats for family and friends every fall, and it's a real quick and easy way to get everything going at once.

I have a 5 gal tank that is connected to the muffs. I run it on the hose until it's at opereating temp so the thermostat is open, once it gets warm, I switch from the water to the tank, and let it flow through and blow out the back. Not only does it get the water out, it also warms up the oil so it's easy to change.

I'd definitely use more than a RV antifreeze for the engine though. Most RV antifreezes are either alcohol based or are not a pure "virgin" antifreeze, as apposed to stronger more engine focused antifreeze. Both Peak and West Marine make a good engine solution. I use the -60 West Marine stuff

 

[ricohman]

Re: Winterization Questions

I agree with the others that suggest draining the block and leaving the drain ports open.
I would not add antifreeze. Mixing the A/F with left over water puts your motor at risk of cracking.
I simply drain my 4.3.

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization Questions

They did it wrong, or didn't do it at all and just charged you. There should be not be a quart of water coming out.

I prefer to pull the plugs and leave them out for the winter and use no antifreeze.

why would you pull the plugs ? ........ if you have fogged engine as per normal lay-up, pulling plugs will allow chance of damp air entering.

 

[Walt T]

Re: Winterization Questions

He means the drain plugs. I don't like the muffs method, I've seen many an impeller pump lose vanes that way. Not saying that's what will happen, just saying if you aren't sure what you're doing, don't use the muff method. Listen guys, Why make it more difficult than you need to? Why do all the work of putting antifreeze in it? Just fog, drain, and be done. If you want to leave the drain plugs out put them in a plastic bag and hang them on the steering wheel. I have actually been called to a lake, been cussed at for doing bad work by a guy who left the plugs out and forgot about it. Filled up his bilge and he only noticed it when water was coming out onto the floor. I had built an engine for him the previous spring so nevermind it ran flawlessly all summer by god it had to be my fault it almost sunk a year later even though I hadn't touched it and he winterized it. By the time I got there he had pumped out all the water with the bilge pump and was yelling at me for almost sinking his boat much to the embarrassment of his wife and her sister who by the way was lookin mighty fine in their bikinis but I digress. I lay down and stick a mirror way down there and sure enough I can see there is no drain plug. So I ask him "where's the drain plugs?" Boy I could see all the color drain out of his face when he remembered he left them out. Then he says "Hey you're not gonna charge me for a service call are you?"

Good lord give me patience. So I flashed a smile at the sister, gave her my card. It pays to stay cool in the face of being yelled at in front of bikinis.

 

[akincer]

Re: Winterization Questions

Guys, thanks for the feedback - it is helpful.

I've heard and read about the debate on using muffs. We all get to make our own choices and I don't plan to use that method.


For me, the debate about using antifreeze or not is less clear. The two basic arguments against are that it's unnecessary or that if there is water left in the block it will dilute the antifreeze. Unnecssary seems to be legit - it just means that I have a little extra time invested. The potential to dilute the antifreeze doesn't make sense to me. If the antifreeze is going to be diluted, then you are working under the assumption that there is residual water in the block. If that's the case, the I would argue that diluted antifreeze is way better than water in terms of risk. So I will continue to consider drain only and drain and add antifreeze. For this year, I used antifreeze. If I choose to use antifreeze next year, does anyone have a suggestion on an easier way to add it other than removing the thermostat housing and all the hoses attached to it. If I could find an easy way to do that, the whole process would probabaly only take 20-30 minutes with the antifreeze method. But, it probably took me 30 minutes to get the housing off and another 30 minutes to put it back on. Any ideas would be helpful!

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization Questions

run engine in a bucket of correct mix anti-freeze and water ?

 

[Walt T]

Re: Winterization Questions

Just draining it is a proven method, has been for as long as people have been winterizing.

 

[Slide]

Re: Winterization Questions

Air doesn't freeze! As a boater you should know that we are constantly in danger of a strike from Murphy. Simply draining leaves fewer opportunities for Murphy to intervene.

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization Questions

The negative point (IMHO) if you do run it in an ant-freeze mix, you know that what is in there is all protected ... in same way as your car is protected by anti-freeze.
If you drain it ... but have not drained all, some pocket of water somewhere - then that is unprotected water :facepalm:

 

[redmen62]

Re: Winterization Questions

I'm still in the camp of running it through, tafflad and I are on the same page... Same with many dealerships out there.

If you're using a marine antifreeze and marine formulated oil it especially makes sense. They are both manufactured with a zink additive that works as a rust and corrosion inhibitor. Buy running it through, you're not only making sure you have all the water out, but you are also adding an extra layer of protection. Of you're still not sold that it's good enough, drop the plugs and drain the aintifreeze out. If you test it with a hydrometer, it'll test plenty cold enough for 99% of the lower 48.

Not to mention how much easier it is

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization Questions

In case my point was not clear - previously on winterizing - watched dealer, and they run to hot on muffs, then drive immersed in antifreeze 'bucket' and then restarted and run until all throughout the system.
At that point they fog to stall point, and then switch off and leave anti-freeze in for the lay up period.

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Winterization Questions

IN case my point was not clear - previously on winterizing engines have been run to hot on muffs, then drive immersed in antifreeze 'bucket' and then restarted and run until all throughout the engine.
At that point hey fog to stall point, and then switch off and leave anti-freeze in for the lay up period.

You're point is clear, just not the way that any manual I've ever seen says to winterize a boat. But if it works for you then go for it. I'll continue just draining the water out

 

[Tafflad]

Re: Winterization Questions

IN case my point was not clear - previously on winterizing engines have been run to hot on muffs, then drive immersed in antifreeze 'bucket' and then restarted and run until all throughout the engine.
At that point hey fog to stall point, and then switch off and leave anti-freeze in for the lay up period.

This was the way my dealer did this, not something I came up with.

 

[skydiveD30571]

Re: Winterization Questions

Many many blocks have cracked due to improperly using anti-freeze. No block has ever cracked after being completely drained. I tend to take the foolproof method over the one that can be messed up. But that's just me.

Both methods work if done correctly. One method has much less of a chance of being done incorrectly.

 

[skydiveD30571]

Re: Winterization Questions

Guys, thanks for the feedback - it is helpful.

I've heard and read about the debate on using muffs. We all get to make our own choices and I don't plan to use that method.


For me, the debate about using antifreeze or not is less clear. The two basic arguments against are that it's unnecessary or that if there is water left in the block it will dilute the antifreeze. Unnecssary seems to be legit - it just means that I have a little extra time invested. The potential to dilute the antifreeze doesn't make sense to me. If the antifreeze is going to be diluted, then you are working under the assumption that there is residual water in the block. If that's the case, the I would argue that diluted antifreeze is way better than water in terms of risk. So I will continue to consider drain only and drain and add antifreeze. For this year, I used antifreeze. If I choose to use antifreeze next year, does anyone have a suggestion on an easier way to add it other than removing the thermostat housing and all the hoses attached to it. If I could find an easy way to do that, the whole process would probabaly only take 20-30 minutes with the antifreeze method. But, it probably took me 30 minutes to get the housing off and another 30 minutes to put it back on. Any ideas would be helpful!

Why were the hoses so difficult to get off? I used to drain and add antifreeze (see above, I just drain now) and I would always just pull the hoses off the t-stat housing and pour antifreeze down the correct ones (manifold hoses, and circulation pump hose for the block). Took maybe 5-10minutes to add antifreeze because removing the housing isn't necessary.