GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

LT, I've noticed that those manufacturers in your line up are foreign, yet the products are not made for their own markets, they are made for the American market, that does say a lot about Americans, does it not ?

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

LT, I've noticed that those manufacturers in your line up are foreign, yet the products are not made for their own markets, they are made for the American market, that does say a lot about Americans, does it not ?

Thats my point exactly. The American auto buyers were sold EXACTLY what they WANTED. If they wanted small fuel efficient vehicles, thats what the manufactures would have produced in order to retain market share. (and profit) The same way the afore mentioned manufacturers attempted to capture market share by jumbo sizing.

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

Not necessary.

I was mostly referring to the model years 1908 though about 1990, when most of the American vehicles were fairly large. Until around 1990, most foreign cars were fairly small.

Since then, all manufacturers have gotten in on big iron, as you have stated, but a big difference is that the foreign manufacturers did not bet the farm, on the larger vehicles and therefore are doing a little better than the "big" three.

Most foreign car manufactures have up sized their product lines for sale in The States. In fact I can't think of any Manufacture or even a single model that advertised "all new reduced size" for better fuel economy and reduced comfort.

 

[Pony]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

Most foreign car manufactures have up sized their product lines for sale in The States. In fact I can't think of any Manufacture or even a single model that advertised "all new reduced size" for better fuel economy and reduced comfort.

We have a Smart Car dealership here......ironically its right next to the largest Chevy dealer in the state.......

http://www.smartusa.com/index.aspx

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

I agree. Sales are driven by demand. The F-150 out selling popular midsize cars says something.

Actually, that doesn't say much... you can't compare pickup trucks that are often necessary for certain jobs to cars. It's an apples to oranges comparisson. Now you could perhaps make a case between the F150 and smaller pickups, like the S-10, although again, sometimes you need the towing ability of the F150, when the S-10 doesn't have much. But that is more of an equal comparison than with cars. You could also compare cars to SUV's... and that says something.

Either way, the demand for gas hogs has virtually vanished, and the suppliers must adjust to the market changes. Anyone that's layed off can probably get a job at the same plant when it reopens as a super-mini itty bitty car manufacturing plant. Vehicles have to be manufactured, even if what type of vehicle that get's made changes.

 

[QC]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

Define "gas hog" . . . Does passenger/payload count for anything?

 

[Knot Waiting]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

Define "gas hog" . . . Does passenger/payload count for anything?

Exactly. Take the Smart car for example. Two seater car that is 10 feet long, getting only 32 to the gallon?? Seems like a bigger gas hog than a 20ft 3/4 ton pick-up with a V-8 getting 16 mpg.

The fact the F-150 was the number 1 selling vehicle in the US says something. People wanted it. More than a car, more than a compact pickup, more than a Segway. For whatever reason they wanted it, and they bought it, in force. So more were built.. simple supply and demand. We like trucks, nothing wrong with that, we arent Europe and just because they arent selling now doesnt give us justification for nagging "told ya so" to a company who was giving us exactly what we wanted a few months ago.

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

Gas hog means getting the most fuel efficient vehicle that meets your needs, so of course payload/cargo space counts. The vehicle has to meet the needs of your situation first, then people get the most fuel efficient vehicle that does that... But the Hummer, really doesn't meet any needs that a more fuel efficent SUV doesn't... except for the status symbol "need" which people are realizing isn't as big a need as saving money at the pump.

 

[sunaj]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

The Hummer is a Jeep on steroids I thought the H3 was a very nice development, with much improvement on gas economy, I'm sorry to see it go, for getting in the backwoods it's pure P*
sunaj

 

[bjcsc]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

Gas hog means getting the most fuel efficient vehicle that meets your needs

That's a key point. Granted lots of us drive trucks/SUVs because we need to haul our boats, or horses, or construction equipment. But for every one of us, there are 10 soccer moms/cubicle jockeys driving them as commuter vehicles...

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

Define "gas hog" . . . Does passenger/payload count for anything?

Only if its utilized. To me that would depend on actual "usage as intended". Using a 3/4 or One ton Pickup(4 door w/10,000 plus plus towing cap.) primarily for single person transportation (more than half the time) seems a waste of passenger/payload, and fuel, be it gas or diesel.

 

[boatradioman]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

well,the hummer was never made for the average commuter.It was made for the army. Then the old hummers were retired and they needed somebody to buy them and they were bought. Some people liked them and they were ok to drive when gas prices were $.10 a gallon. Now when diesel costs 5.20 there is no point to drive them if you need it to go from point A to b. if you need to kill some insurgent in Iraq good vehicle

 

[MikDee]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

I think alot has to do with the media glamorizing it all, When Horatio on CSI Miami drives a Hummer, or Gibs on NCIS drives a Charger R/T with a Hemi, or When we see every pimp on tv driving a pimped out Escalade, every Dimwit, Wannabe, & Pimp, with more money, then brains, decides "I'm gonna go get me one of them fancy rides" for nothing but eye candy, It just fuels the problem. Also, to those that are well heeled, like the movie stars, CEO's, and such, a tricked out BMW, Lexus, Infinty, Mercedes, or etc. is a status symbol that is just a commodity like a new pair of shoes, with about equal value, or there are those that have to have the latest, fastest, or newest most outrageous, or collectable vehicle out there, So, thats what the car companies give us. Sometimes I wonder, if those of us who buy just enough vehicle as we need, are in the minority? Does the government really need a slew of blacked Yukon Denali's, Escalades, or Mercedes, for every government agency?

 

[bekosh]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

But for every one of us, there are 10 soccer moms/cubicle jockeys driving them as commuter vehicles...

Let me ask the important question then.
SO WHAT!??!

 

[jeeperman]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

Let me ask the important question then.
SO WHAT!??!

And here is an answer:
The price of fuel is not going up due to lack of demand.
What if 9 out of those 10 soccor moms were driving more efficient vehicles that still met their needs?
Would there still be enough demand to push the price of fuel to what it is today?

I suppose the oil companies are just going to push the price of fuel up to what ever they want cause they know that we will pay the price no matter how high?

 

[bjcsc]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

But for every one of us, there are 10 soccer moms/cubicle jockeys driving them as commuter vehicles...

Let me ask the important question then.
SO WHAT!??!

Huh? Where did you lose track? I'll catch you up:

-QC asked how 'gas hog' was defined
-SgtMaj suggested the definition had more to do with using more than you need vs. engines using a certain volume
-I agreed with his characterization and offered that statement as an example of people using more than they need, once again, supporting SgtMaj's premis in answer to QC's question.

BTW, the price of diesel dropped $.07 overnight here...the market is already paying attention to GM's announcement...

 

[bekosh]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

Let me rephrase it then. Why is it any of your business what those 10 soccer mom's/cubical jockeys choose to drive? Or do you think that there should be some sort of qualification process before you can buy a vehicle?

"I'm sorry sir. We can't sell you the SUV that you want. You don't need it."

 

[QC]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

Yeah, and let me explain my question . . . Most got it, but a gas hog is only a hog if you have a Soccer mom who doesn't know any Soccer players . . . Most of the Moms I know cart six kids around sometimes, so I am not sure who determines how often they must do that to qualify for the right to own what may at other times be called a gas hog. The point is, I am totally with bekosh. If I can afford it, then it's my call. It's my call even if I can't afford it.

And . . . this idea that a big fuel user is causing your fuel prices to go up is equally troubling and dangerous. Are you suggesting that if I am a Chocoholic, that I should reduce my consumption because I have selfishly made all other chocolate eater's chocolate, more expensive? Jeez, where does that end? All you gotta do is think this stuff through and in a nano-second it is clear that the cure is worse than the disease. This is is why I'll never understand most politician's solutions to many problems. Yeah, let's regulate it, that'll make it better. Un flippin' believable. Hows about I buy as much fuel as I want, and you buy as much fuel as you want, and if I can't afford it, I stop. And if you can afford more, you buy a space heater that burns diesel fuel. I don't know, but these thoughts are simply crazy.

Oh, oh, I know a tried and true way to push people into smaller cars . . . Tax fuel like the Europeans do, so that only the super rich can drive bigger cars. Oh, that will help narrow the haves and have nots divide

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

What is a bigger gas hog than your boat ?...Yet you would'nt consider getting rid of it merely because the price of gas is up, (actually it is your dollar currency that is down) would you?

The human species are odd creatures, some see the glass as half full, others see it as half empty, then they argue, fight and kill each other, lemmings have their own excuse.

 

[bjcsc]

Re: GM closing 4 truck plants. No more Hummer??

Let me rephrase it then. Why is it any of your business what those 10 soccer mom's/cubical jockeys choose to drive?

The point is, I am totally with bekosh. If I can afford it, then it's my call. It's my call even if I can't afford it....Are you suggesting that if I am a Chocoholic, that I should reduce my consumption because I have selfishly made all other chocolate eater's chocolate, more expensive? Jeez, where does that end?

You guys are on some serious tangents and missing the point. I don't care what anybody drives or why. This isn't about that or me or whether anyone can afford it. This is about the automobile market. This discussion was about the decreasing demand for big trucks and SUVs. The people who have been buying/driving those vehicles are the ones that decided to stop. That's why GM is closing the plants down. They didn't stop/lose interest in driving those vehicles because anyone said they had to - they chose to do it on their own because in their opinions, and based on their uses, their vehicles were 'gas hogs'. Who cares what those people drive? They do! That's the whole point of this thread!

And . . . this idea that a big fuel user is causing your fuel prices to go up is equally troubling and dangerous.

Not to turn this into another 'economics of fuel' thread, but if you think that a big fuel user, such as CHINA for example, isn't affecting fuel prices then I am surprised. The price today is based on the perceived future demand - worldwide - that's why commodities are called futures...

If automakers start shifting their focus to more efficient vehicles and drop some of the less efficient lines, say for example by closing down 4 truck plants, it absolutely will affect the market. It's the way markets work FCOL. Isn't it??