1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

[avpaulb]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

Nice looking boat av. Got my fingers crossed for you that she's sound below deck and you will just have an easy window realignment on your hands! I think you're right to take core samples though with a GRP boat of this age.

I guess I did make it sound like I expect a miracle with this thing. But hey, it's 38 years old. I expect some challenges! But the price was right! ($0)

More to follow, it's almost garage time!

 

[jmmacky]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

I guess I did make it sound like I expect a miracle with this thing. But hey, it's 38 years old. I expect some challenges! But the price was right! ($0)

More to follow, it's almost garage time!

You can't go wrong after getting it for the bargain price of $0!! Good luck av

 

[avpaulb]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

Here's an intriguing thought:

What if the rollers on the trailer were just a bit out of whack, causing the entire boat to bend in a bit at the top? A little bit of mis-alignment at the bottom would cause quite a bit more higher...

I only ask because the previous owner had the trailer re-done, and the rollers don't adjust. They are fixed.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

Well, to set both of your minds at ease:

The previous owner had built in some storage boxes and pedestal seats.

Unsealed penetrations are likely entry points for water intrusion, if pedestal seats aren't installed and sealed perfectly in a fiberglass boat they will be main entry points for water intrusion.Fasteners for storage boxes to deck installation are more entry points.

I can already see that the bow portion of the deck, in between the consoles has an additional 1/2 or 3/4" piece of ply under it. (I think this is supposed to be there?). There is an aluminum trim strip to connect the bow to the main deck that has a 1/2" drop in it. Seems like it was meant to be...
I'll be surprised if this is/was factory design, sounds like a double deck patch job to me and is probably the reason you deck still feels "solid".

I'll have more pics later as I start digging in. I'm waiting for my garage to empty out to move indoors.

Here's an intriguing thought:

What if the rollers on the trailer were just a bit out of whack, causing the entire boat to bend in a bit at the top? A little bit of mis-alignment at the bottom would cause quite a bit more higher...

I only ask because the previous owner had the trailer re-done, and the rollers don't adjust. They are fixed.

A strong seaworthy boat won't bend, a rot weakened boat will.

After your description of the PO's modifications on this boat, I personally would not hesitate to start removing decking to check stringers. If all is well below you'll just need to replace the decking that has already got holes in it for water to seep through... but I'm pretty sure you will find a little boat shop of horrors below your decking and your demolition won't be in vain.

 

[avpaulb]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

A strong seaworthy boat won't bend, a rot weakened boat will.

After your description of the PO's modifications on this boat, I personally would not hesitate to start removing decking to check stringers. If all is well below you'll just need to replace the decking that has already got holes in it for water to seep through... but I'm pretty sure you will find a little boat shop of horrors below your decking and your demolition won't be in vain.

Sometimes I hate the fact that I found this website.

I do have some very interesting pics upcoming. Kudos to many prior comments! Let's all pray for good stringers...

Hail Mary! Full of good stringers...

 

[avpaulb]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

Well I managed to get the carpet off deck to reveal:







The holes are where some seat mounts were installed. Believe it or not, they were quite well sealed. The wood beneath is dry.

What is below deck is what is intriguing. It doesn't look like there are any traditional stringers other than where the bilge is built.

The deck has definately been patched at some point, as evidenced by these pics. Note my sharpie lines.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

No stringers would be a real good reason for deck and hull sag, probably no foam too eh?!:facepalm:

Some of those PO's will do anything for a laugh.

 

[avpaulb]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

From just in front of the bilge area, from where one of the seat mounts was placed, you can see forever:



The deck wood above actually looks dry, just OLD with peeling glass. Also note the plywood from side-to-side and the foam coming from nowhere.

I'm going to find out for sure tomorrow after I remove a section of floor, but I suspect that there are a few strips of plywood running side-to-side for floor support, with decking placed on top and foam on either side. No actual stringers. Check out my crude, theoretical drawing:



I noted with sharpie on the floor (previous pictures) where I thought the side-to-side floor supports might be, drawn in gray in my drawing. It looks like the floor is sloping very, very slightly from these areas. Floor is noted in red. So, where the supports are the floor is slightly higher.

This would cause the middle of the floor as well as where the consoles sit to sag very slightly. Hence, window not fitting. I was in fact able to make the window close by applying some slight pressure outward to each console.



My theory on the foam is that it was poured into the shallow areas on either side of the bilge, using the chine lines as a natural "catch". Again, there doesn't appear to be any sort of stringer structure involved. But something like this:



In this case, deck is red, support is gray, foam is yellow, white is bilge area.

Again, all theory based on some very limited picture space. I'm digging in tomorrow to test my theory out!

 

[avpaulb]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

(and my wife is going to kill me)

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

I was in fact able to make the window close by applying some slight pressure outward to each console.

This is a good indicator of just how weak your boat is. Those consoles should be rock solid and you shouldn't be able to move them at all.

 

[Teamster]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

I'm not sure when the "level floatation" laws went into effect,

If it was after 75' that might explain the lack of foam,..............

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

I don't know, but this doesn't look like factory work:

Odd stray bits of foam, plywood edge w/ hairy glass fibers sticking past, and a doubled up plywood deck.

I think the PO cut the deck at or very near the consoles & re-decked the back, and overlayed some portion of the forward deck..........

Best of luck w/ the Admiral today AV........

 

[Teamster]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

It sure looks like someone put an extra deck on top of the original,....

But the rest of it below deck looks about right for a 1975 boat,..........

With some work and tender loving care it will be a fine vessel when finished,.......

 

[avpaulb]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

It sure looks like someone put an extra deck on top of the original,....

I'm not 100% sure yet, but based on what I've seen so far, and especially from the above picture, I'm almost certain that it is a single level of decking on top of a side-to-side plywood supports. In this case, 1.5" thick. I'll find out.

I agree! It does have promise!

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

I agree! It does have promise!

It is an excellent classic well worth the time and money to restore, and if you didn't live so far away I might try to talk you out of it.

My previous posts were in no way meant to bash or trash your boat, it just has things wrong with it that definitely need attention so she can be the fine vessel she once was.

 

[avpaulb]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

No worries whatsoever. I'm here for the input. Speaking of which...

I cut some larger holes to get an idea what's going on under there. Looks like I was partly correct. There is in fact side-to-side deck supports:



There are stringers located closer to the outer edges of the boat, and appear to be in very good condition.

Towards the bow, wood looks to be in good condition underneath the seating area, but there is just no support for it laterally:





You can see one of the stringers to the upper left of one of these pics. Looks pretty good.

One of my wood cutouts was a bit worn topside, but dry underneath:



From the other side of the engine compartment, there is a lateral support to separate the bilge area which looks intact, but quite dirty:



The foam that I can see thus far appears to be dry as well. And of course, years of muck that has made it's way into the bilge area. Very disappointed that I didn't find any good lures either.

Going to get a drink and await some thoughts! I have some thoughts of my own I'm going to prep as well.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

The piece of plywood you're holding in your hand in the pic, is that the top or bottom of the plywood facing the camera?... can we see the other side?

It looks like whoever worked on your boat last really didn't know what they were doing, which is evident in the deck/console sag. I'm not sure if this pic is showing the transom or a bulkhead (lateral support) in the background, but you can plainly see they opted-out for a much shorter stringer which only offers a fraction of the original support for the hull and none for the deck.

I'm guessing they installed the short stringers and just laid the plywood over the 2 tri-hull inverted V's and figured that would be enough support, which it obviously isn't.

This is a proper stringer set-up for a tri-hull, the very deep keel stringer for hull and deck support and the 2 smaller for hull and mainly deck support. You can visit this thread here:
http://forums.iboats.com/boat-restoration-building-hull-repair/my-project-74-ebbtide-584261.html

Filling your bilge with expanding urethane foam will also help support your deck and will eliminate/displace that pukewater you have... but proper stringers are the most important part of a good fiberglass boat build.

 

[avpaulb]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

The piece of plywood you're holding in your hand in the pic, is that the top or bottom of the plywood facing the camera?... can we see the other side?

Filling your bilge with expanding urethane foam will also help support your deck and will eliminate/displace that pukewater you have... but proper stringers are the most important part of a good fiberglass boat build.

Pukewater! LOL! That's awesome. The piece of wood is actually the below deck side. Clean and dry. It is in the same condition in front of the console area as well.

The picture you highlighted caught my attention as well. That is a bulkhead viewed in front of the engine compartment. The shorter stringer you see runs the entire length of the boat. Not exactly sure the story there, but the type of glass covering it looks an awful lot like factory installed for that era... very heavy weaving. I also think this because it runs under the motor as well and tapers off by the time it reaches the drain plug. Who knows though?

I think I have a potential plan to repair what we are seeing here without having to remove the entire cap of the boat. I'll draw something up and post it later this afternoon, early evening.

 

[avpaulb]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

SO, my thought is:

Structurally speaking, the wood in the bow above the consoles as well as the engine compartment seems good to go. If I were to rip out the main decking area, rebuilt the center stringer, and install a few bulkheads for structure (and foam) that should be a good fix. Specifically, in the bow below the consoles, build an appropriately sized bulkhead to raise the consoles back to the correct level to fix the window issue...

Then replace the decking, carpet, etc.

Gray, existing stringers. Red, new bulkheads:



Ish.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1975 Crestliner "Muskie" 775 - A New Project

My guess is that originally was a foam filled hull. That's the reason for the Short stringers. They were there for basic Chine support and then the hull was filled with foam to support the hull and the deck. When the PO removed the deck and the old Water logged foam he opted to NOT refill totally with foam and just put a bit of foam here and there and then tabbed the deck to the sides of the hull. But that's just my guess based on what I'm seeing. I'm not speaking from experience.