1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

bktheking

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Don't forget you have a driver coil under that flywheel, did you test it too?
 

scanman

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

If I have clean blue spark it should be good, right? Didn't replace it.
I'll be back this afternoon guys.
 

jmendoza

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

I am wondering why only 75 pounds compression? Oh well, at least it's the same on both. Now, I know this may seem odd, but beleive it of not, if you have a bad condensor, it will usuallty check good, and the engine will start, but once the engine is running the condensor will internally short intermittantly, and with each short, it burns the path open (fuses) and then works again but leaves carbon from the arcing which then causes another short, it becomes a viciouse cycle. This type of problem will come and go, and typically the key is pitted points, or points that arc while running, but you won't be able to see that with this engine as the flywheel covers the points.

I had a 2-stroke twin that wopuld drop a cylinder and run rough, then "heal" itself and work fine, sometimes for long periods of time. I had another engine that started and ran OK until you gave it some load, and then it would run OK, but when you let off it would rough idle and eventually die. Both engines had bad condensors as it turns out.

The local marina had many of the older 9.9/15 engines for their rental fishing boat fleet, and the OMC certified mechanic once took it upon himself to put new points and condensors (tune-up kits) in all of them over the winter. The following spring, they had almost all of them crap out on the water, as the new condensors all were defective and failed in a very short time. He put all the old condensors back in, and all was good again. Apparently when Mallory, and others moved their condensor manufacturing to Asia, they were not made the same way and are inferior to the USA ones. I can attest to the fact that when Yamaha quit using Japanese made Hitachi condensors for OEM replacement parts, we began having failures with the Taiwanese Hitachi condensors, and again, it was always after a tune up kit had been installed. Lesson here is use the old condensors unless they are bad. FYI, my 1975 9.9 has original points and condensors.

Yes this is also throwing a dart, but at this point, it's stuff like this that burns you because one would assume a new condensor/s would not fail, but they do!
 

Will Bark

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Since "darts" are going everywhere, here's two more. Did you check the pressure port(don't know what it's actually called) behind the fuel pump to make sure it doesn't have any carbon buildup to give you less pressure to power the pump? Also, you can get some clear vinyl 3/16 hose from auto supply store to go between fuel pump and the carb; then you can watch to see if fuel continues to go to the carb. One thse darts from someone is going to hit the target.
 

scanman

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

First, Will Bark, got the clear fuel line installed. Also if the pump were bad, gravity feed would've fixed it, momentarily. Thanks though. Lookin forward to fishin with ya!

jmendoza, I too was wondering why comp was so low. either I did the test wrong, or I should've gone with +.010 rings. I can't remember if the cylinders were sleeved or not, but an old guy at the local evinrude dealer said that compression was too low to idle smoothly & maybe the sleeve had seperated from the cyl wall, leakin water into the chamber. Just wonderin, Is 75psi too low to produce a smooth idle? Are the bores sleeved(I really didn't look)? I hope it's only a bad "new" condenser cause I really DON'T want to tear it down again. I'm gonna re-read the file on a comp check & re-do it in the mornin. Shouldn't it be about 100psi or more?
 

the machinist

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

As for compression testing, I have found that not all testers come up with the same pressure. I have had 3 & the neighbor a different one & there is 15# difference between them. You might just have a low reading one. One of my gauges broke & I tried to purchase a new gauge from Car Quest. They said just a gauge was not available. My guess is that these are made so cheaply it is not pheasable to repair them. Also what I found was the "valve seat inserts" are made in a different internal color, these colors use a different tension opening spring, (car tube version is overly strong) so the inserts may need to be matched with the gauge. And since we are usually manually pulling a rope as compared to a electric starter, the pressure reading will probably be different. I have a feeling this is why OMC has not posted a recommended PSI reading, as mechanics would be chasing their tails over a few #.

I suspect that somewhere it is loosing continutity or a connection under load. Maybe the suggested condeners could be the culpit.

I also have a 1974 that was running fine until I tried to sell it this spring & then it lost one cylinder, maybe it is a new condenser problem also. I just gave up on it as fishing season was more important than fighting it till this winter.

At least when you do find out the problem, I may have something else to add to the article.

Good Luck
 

Fed

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Has it ever run properly since the rebuild Scanman?

I feel your pain fellow sparky, your body language in the last video speaks volumes, you should hide all the large hammers.

I'd drop the leg & give it a run without water for a short time just to rule in or out water getting in to a cylinder.
 

poida

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

I've had a 9.9 that ran and idled well at 60psi, i would be looking under the flywheel at the coils/condensers and ht leads. Good luck, can feel your frustration.
 

scanman

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

I bought omc condensers & unfortunately, the old ones are long gone. Maybe try a set from sierra? Is there a way to test em?
My compression gauge is an automotive version that reads up to 250psi, I think. That could explain the low numbers! Thanks Machinist. I'm really NOT wantin to tear it down again! I would be honored (sort of:rolleyes:) to be a part of your archives!
What started it all. Moved to the gulf coast, a 235' elevation drop. Put in on the bayou, ran for about 35 minutes @ no-wake speeds. Returned to the ramp & gunned it to beach the boat. The boy isn't ready to back the trailer yet. Got back in it to trailer it up & it wouldn't start. Found a rotted fuel line leaking. replaced it & cleaned the carb. no help. rebuilt the fuel pump. no help. replaced one coil, nope. replaced condensers, nope. Had the money, tools, & ability, soooo... knowing it's history, decided to go ahead with the powerhead rebuild. The motor sat in fresh water on a pontoon for several years before I bought it. The condition of the crankshaft journals & piston rings more than justified the rebuild. Still dad & I fished this motor for 12 years, before he passed, with no major troubles.
Just for the record, Fed, I don't need a hammer to make a FISH ATTRACTOR outta this thing! LOL!:mad:
 

bktheking

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Just going back over the post, you said the powerhead was rebuilt, i'm assuming you did the rebuild?

One is to assume that you did the rebuild correctly, you used gel seal between the crankcase halves to seal the block, used new upper and lower seals during the rebuild, didn't use gasket maker on the reed plate?
 

ezeke

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

First, Will Bark, got the clear fuel line installed. Also if the pump were bad, gravity feed would've fixed it, momentarily. Thanks though. Lookin forward to fishin with ya!
jmendoza, I too was wondering why comp was so low. either I did the test wrong, or I should've gone with +.010 rings. I can't remember if the cylinders were sleeved or not, but an old guy at the local evinrude dealer said that compression was too low to idle smoothly & maybe the sleeve had seperated from the cyl wall, leakin water into the chamber. Just wonderin, Is 75psi too low to produce a smooth idle? Are the bores sleeved(I really didn't look)? I hope it's only a bad "new" condenser cause I really DON'T want to tear it down again. I'm gonna re-read the file on a comp check & re-do it in the mornin. Shouldn't it be about 100psi or more?
The manual starters are geared low to make it easy to pull, but the result is that a compression test will read lower than it would on the electric start motors. You might get a higher reading with a rope on the flywheel.
 

scanman

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Bk, you are correct. everything was done using chemicals from OMC & techniques from the sealoc manual. I also employed my torque wrench regularly (every bolt). I too kinda suspected the reed plate gaskets. My dad taught me to spray wd-40 around the carb, while it's runnin, to find vacuum leaks. When I did this the RPMs didn't increase at all, so I think they're ok. I thought maybe I put em in backwards, but Leeroy says it won't even hit a pop if they're wrong, so they gotta be right, right?
exeke, thanks, I'm really hopin I don't have to tear it down again. Imma try to borrow a different comp tester & see what it reads.
 

bktheking

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

I don't know if it's possible to put em in backwards, you see the way they are oriented when you take it apart.
 

scanman

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Yea, they'll fit, but theyll block off a small passage. probably a fuel passage of some kind. It has a small sreen in it, bout the size of a pea. It appears to let a small amount of fuel bypasss the reeds for some reason.
 

the machinist

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

In the back of my feeble mind, I remember something about possibly getting the manifold gaskets swapped on the wrong sides of the reed plate & a hole gets plugged. Did that once & had to pull the maqnifold off & redo it, but can not remember the symtoms.
 

scanman

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

I'm gonna post a new vid of the spark test & if ya'll agree it's good, I guess I'll tear the intake back off. I cleaned the carb again today, soft plugs & all. Everything looks great. Got small strands of wire through the idle passages & all seems well. I may try new condensers first, just in case I bought a bad one. If not I'm goin into the reed plates again. Anybody got gaskets layin round?
Damn your feeble mind! Hope it's better than mine!:rolleyes:
 

scanman

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

OK, the vid turned out to be worthless. It's dark & I don't have a tripod. HOWEVER...
First I apologize to bk, the machinist, & everyone else who said it wasn't firing properly! IT'S NOT!
I had three different people hold the tester & all of em told me both cylinders were firing!
New rule #1: Always make the novice pull the rope!
New rule #2: Believe Leeroy! These old point style ignition systems are weak! The spark will jump 1/4", but it will NOT jump 3/8". I obviously should've read the tape closer. When I checked it moments ago, the gaps were only 1/4"! I feel so stoopid!
Sooo... Cylinder #2 isn't firing at all even though three people saw it doing so! AMAZING!!! I measured the coil resistance myself & it was the same as the new coil on #1 cylinder. I'll read them tomorrow without the wires & see what I get. I have a feelin it could be as insignifigant as broken windings in the plug wire! They are the old ones. When you buy new coils from OMC they don't come with the boots or the metal ends that fit the plug, so I just left the old ones. I hope it's really that simple! If it is I feel really bad bout badgerin everyone with it. I'll start a poll thread called "should I unsubscribe?":redface:
I'll post results & hopefully a vid of it runnin correctly tomorrow afternoon!!



THANK YOU ALL! THERE ARE NO WORDS! ROUND HERE WE INVITE YA'LL TO A COOKOUT!:):):)
 

bktheking

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Replace the wires to start, I was born in 75 and I know I've had mine replaced LOL, it's definately ignition, you can here it in the video. Easy to change the wires, sierra sells the wire, ends and such or a small engine shop sells the proper wire and you could use the old boots/plug ends. Just make sure it's not automotive wire as it will not work.
 

scanman

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

ok, I found a bad plug wire. Just too lazy to put the new ones on. Also replaced the old coil, so now I got 2 new ones. Spark is now correct. I saw it with my own eyes. BUT IT STILL WON'T RUN MORE THAN 30 SECONDS!!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
I'm goin back in the carb, I guess. I can't buy one right now. This makes no sense. this carb isn't very complicated.
Maybe I'll use this motor to limp out to the gulf & SHOOT IT!
 

scanman

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Cleaned out the carb again. It didn't fix it. Still won't idle. Seems to run well when it's cold. Wonder if it could be a brand new bad condenser?
 
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