1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Will Bark

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

One of my repair manuals says to brush thick soapy water at all joints and crankcase bolts to see if there is any type of pressure leak at any place. You probably have done this but thought I would mention it. It does sound like you have a component that's heating up. Does it run longer or smoother in the colder air?
 

Fed

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

I'm sure I had a completely different motor with the same symptoms.
A 70's 3 cyl 65HP Merc with a pin hole in the exhaust baffle plate allowing water to get into the cylinder opposite the hole.
The last thing I want to do is lead you down the wrong path but it does sort of fit,... time taken to fill the block with water until the problem starts happening.
This thread is my 1st port of call when I turn my computer on of a morning.
 

scanman

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Will Bark, it seems to run bout 30-45 seconds on a cold start, & when re-startin it'll only run 10-15 seconds. That's why I'm thinkin I bought a bad condenser (as per The Machinist). I don't think I can get new ones 'till Monday, so I'll try the soap & water thing today. Just for fun! Thanks.

Fed, my fellow sparky, how would I go about fillin the block with water if the motor won't stay runnin? Wouldn't I have seen some evidence of leakage by now? Carbon deposits, water on the seals or boltheads, something? I'll try anything (except startin fluid)! I appreciate your Vigilance, by the way. THANKS BUD.
 

bktheking

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

If you were getting water in the block it would show up on the plugs, you already checked that.
 

Fed

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

I'm hearing you BK but scanman shook the plugs out onto an absorbant pad and I don't know if water would show on there.
It should run without condensors shouldn't it? You could give it a try.
How about a squirt of premix, I notice in the videos you never seem to rev it up at all.
5.15am here, daylight saving kicked in yesterday so it's really only 4.15am, this motor is interupting my sleep.
 

chum1

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

That thing sounds like it is heating up and quitting, had an old johnson that did the same da..n thing, check your water pump/ hose to tube connections, if it was running out of fuel it wouldnt slowly drop rpm , it dies right now!
 

scanman

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Hey Fed, the absorbent pad I used is the type we use to soak oil outta the Gulf Of Mexico. They don't absorb water at all! I even use em to clean out the barrel I run the motor in. One of the wonders of man if ya ask me, but they work! They get all the oil & no water! It'll rev up when its in drive, but it won't idle. No sense in throwin the water outta the barrel for nothin. It has no power at full speed. The shot of premix didn't help any more than bypassin the fuel pump. I'm not sure if it'll run without the condensers or not, but it's worth a try. Watch this vid from today & tell me what yall think! I'm kinda thinkin It should be runnin by now!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COu2kyNoRPA

Sorry bout all your sleep Fed! I wish I could move down there, I been unemployed for almost two years! Bet I could make a livin there!:)
 

bktheking

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

No water coming out of that relief hole in the midsection. My 76 starts spitting out of the hole in 5-10 seconds, not sure if it means anything but it should be spitting from that port.


PS- I got a 15 hp in yesterday that overheated, I pulled the stat cover and the stat was destroyed, headgasket had blown on the top cylinder. He said it would start and would run for 10-15 seconds and then would die, water got in the cylinders of course.
 

Fed

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Are the condensors across the points, if so then it shouldn't hurt to remove them for a test but I'm not 100% sure so maybe someone else will chime in.
 

scanman

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Doesn't your '76 have the add-on tell-tale fittin I saw in your pics? This motor doesn't have that YET, & all it's ever done is kinda spit water. There's not been a strait stream over several years & several new impellers. The impeller was put in it 'bout 6 runnin hrs ago, but I did tear up the first new one really quick (before the rebuild). Just like I saw at the end of part two of the carb vid you posted. What causes a new impeller to shed it's blades like that? I probably should check it, but I'd have a hard time believin that's the problem. Can you convince me otherwise? Right now it wont run long enough to start peein the way it always has in the past. Guess I could pull the therm gasket & cover, but it's been workin. Seems to be a bit "slow" to kick in, but, the way it runs, heat is also hard to come by. Also I don't know if the temp range changed or not, but the local dealer reccommended the stainles steel model thermostat for the salt water round here, and I agree It'll withstand corrosion longer, even though I'll be VERY VIGILANT about flushing it.
 

bktheking

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Age I guess causes them to break. I added the telltale indeed , it still comes out of the exhaust hole in the back. Just weird that it didn't on yours, it should with a new pump in no time.
 

scanman

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

bk, I was editing while you posted! LOL! re-read please!:)
 

ezeke

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Is your choke off at the end of that last video?
 

scanman

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Yes, it starts really easy & needs very little choke after it begins to run. I have new condensers from OMC in it, I'll have new ones from sierra round 3PM. I'm gonna change em out to see if I got a bad set from the dealer. Thats all I can think of.
 

scanman

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Condensers were no help. I'm stumped & ready to give up.:(:(:(
 

Will Bark

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Scanman, I have watched your video again and while watching it makes me want to see you pull that choke out halfway; grab that throttle and rev it up; doing all you have done to it may have changed the way it wants to be treated; kind of like a woman changing her ways.
 

OptsyEagle

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

I second that. Once you get it going, put it in gear to allow you to go past the neutral stop if you need to. Obviously don't over rev it, but see if you can keep it going with more gas.

When looking at the last couple of videos, it seems to me that both cylinders start slowing down and then one fails and then the other. Now, if it was the pump or carburetor, I would think that both cylinders would fail at the same time.

So that leaves me thinking spark and/or spark timing. I think we can rule out condensers and probably points. Perhaps your main driver coil is failing after it heats up. Also, on Leeroy's site he talks about a loose timing plate:

------------

Timing Plate loose: This can be an item that may be overlooked, but it can be critical. Under the flywheel is what I call the timing plate assembly, this is essentially the whole charge coil/ignition module under the flywheel. It rotates when you twist the throttle twist grip. If the "Ignition plate to support bearing" (#47 ) or part #322435, becomes worn or warped, it will then be loose, this will allow the whole timing plate to rotate under the flywheel by the force of the flywheel magnets rotating around the coils mounted on the plate. This will cause the throttle timing to possibly change enough to create a non-starting motor. This support bearing puts tension on the inside of the timing plate dia. What usually happens is that someone oils everything up & this being one that gets a shot. It needs FRICTION not lubrication. You may be able to clean it up, then warm it in a micro wave & expand the ends to make it a larger dia.

This "bearing" is a fiber ring 5" in diameter, 3/16" thick & 1/4" wide. It is has a groove around in the inside to fit over the plate, & split in the middle like a set of piston ring to allow installation. If it is collapsed, meaning it has both ends almost together, it will not be able to put enough pressure on the timing plate. You may be able to put it in a micro-wave for a few seconds to soften it up, allowing you to spread it back out & be reusable. When installed it acts as a bushing excreting circular friction between upper plate & the block. The thickness up & down is not where the tension is put between the two but the outer circumference pressure.

There are 4 parts that constitute that this timing plate/stator assembly. First there is reference #41 or "timing plate retainer & link", next #46 is the "support plate" onto which is attached #47 bearing, ignition plate support" which is a plastic type large ring with a groove in the center. The outer edges of this plate #46 accepts #47 bearing. This bearing is made larger in diameter & has angled ends to be compressed & ride inside the #39 "timing plate & sleeve" unit that the stator is attached to. However it will not just slide on.

You will have to make a simple small wire staple that will hold the 2 ends in place while you slide #39 down over this #47 bearing. The best I have found is to place the bearing so the joint is pointing straight to the rear. Slide the timing plate assembly down & usually the staple will fall out, if not you can reach in with an ice pick & dislodge it from the bearing. Now it will fall on top of the block, so you can retrieve it with a small magnet. The red arrow in the photo below is pointing to the staple. The other bearing shown below is the position the normal bearing is extended. One is brown while the other is black, no difference, just possibly a different year."

http://www.sschapterpsa.com/ramblings/Johnson_9.9_troubleshooting.htm

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I think I remember BK asking about a loose mag plate and perhaps you have checked this. Those are my thoughts. A last thought might be a partially sheered flywheel key if it hasn't been addressed yet.
 

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scanman

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

I'll post a new vid in a bit. It will rev up in the barrel, & when I had it in the water it would eventually come up to WOT (4875rpm) with the boat heavily loaded. It took a while to get there, & I have to put in in one gear or the other to start it to move around or head home cause it dies when I roll the throttle back to shift. Top end seems ok, when it gets there, but it just won't idle after it warms up just a little. Not even enough to start spittin. The driver pack hasn't been replaced. Would it quit sparkin if it were the driver? I could test that. The bearing also wasn't replaced. Wouldn't I be able to see the timing "moving" with the timing light? It looks to be stable.
Those are the only two parts left to replace, I think.
 

AlTn

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Scan...fwiw....I do the wrenching on a 1978 9.9 and can attest that at cold start, choke fully on, lu in neutral, and throttle as far advanced as the stop allows, <procedure appears to be exactly as your last video shows>, the starting rpm is at least 2x as great as yours is. On this motor, I set the throttle roller slightly advanced from the scribe mark on the throttle cam ,ie;instead of the roller being centered on the scribe mark as the throttle plate just begins to open, the roller center is slightly beyond the scribe mark as the throttle plate begins to open. I know you've checked it a dozen times already, but are the armature plate and the throttle plate moving in unison as you twist the throttle handle?....is the throttle plate horizontal and the armature plate as far advanced as it can be when the lu is in fwd and the throttle handle is at wot?...
 

scanman

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Re: 1975 evinrude 9.9 fuel pump prob?

Here's the latest vid. Lighting is bad cause I was tryin to beat dusk. You should be able to see my hand go to the choke, that's when it dies. After I get it to refire, I put it in gear & throttle up a bit. When I roll it back to about 1/4 throttle to keep the water in the barrel it dies again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U99rAqlBy7k

Also, AlTn, these are pics of the linkage in idle, start (on the Nuetral stop) & at WOT. I believe mine are the same as you stated. If not, please let me know. If the pics aren't any good I'll post more tomorrow.

I'm thinkin driver pack or flywheel key. I may just replace both.

I should probably put in a good word for Bayou Marine in Ocean Springs, MS. I'm sure glad they still stock parts for these old motors! They're also willing to try to help save you money if they can. NO MARK UP on OMC parts! Same prices as shop2.evinrude.com! I'm not sure if they have a website or not, but if you're in the neighborhood, They can probably help!
 

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