1996 Bayliner Capri (1952) Deck Restoration

[maddog238]

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

View attachment 141544View attachment 141545View attachment 141546

Took some pics during lunch. As you can see, i do have some rot...but with fingers crossed my stringers are still good. Not likely right...LOL One of the pics show where i removed the seat base...no biggie.

Now bringing this back to my original problem area ... ski locker.
During lunch, I put the water hose at the drain of the ski locker. Water quickly filled up the ski locker. and barely drained to the bilge. There is an access hole shown in the below picture of the gas tank. the Water started rising there and barely trickled into the bilge. That tells me there is a blockage somewhere below the gas tank. So i lifted up the gas tank's end closest to the ski locker and water started flowing. Does this mean i need to remove the gas tank to clear the blockage? if so, is there a trick to it??? meaning will i need to get out the air pockets before putting it back together? is there something that I need to shut off or disconnect? Or is it simply disconnecting wires and hose and 'heeve hoeing' the tank out of the boat?
View attachment 141551

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Disconnect, Drain with a siphon pump, and Heave Ho!!! Your pic attachments did not work. You need to ensure proper drainage all the way to the bilge or you might as well not do the work. Unfortunately I believe you should prepare yourself for a "Full Restoration". $$$$ will be in the $1,000 to $1,500 range. Prolly NOT what you want to hear but just trying to be honest with you. Seen a bunch of boats like this and they just seem to just keep gettin worse the more you dig into them.

 

[maddog238]

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Seeing how I am tearing stuff out, how do i check the transom (my boat is an I/O) assuming that if I need to check it?

Also if by chance I find stringers good when drilling holes, what do I feel the hole with? Can i use PL premium or poly PB?

 

[maddog238]

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Ok everyone. Just found out that i lost my drill in a garage spring cleaning a couple of weeks ago so I could not drill test my stringers for rot

I did tear out the woodframe surrounding my engine. I left about 9 inches of the frame closest to the transom on both side because of all the hoses, wires, etc. I don't have a picture because large dark clouds rained on my demolition before I could.

I keep staring in fear at the plastic gas tank because I know it needs to come out because water is clogged at the keel. I have looked through Frisco's posts and saw that he put a false floor underneathe the ski locker and gas tank area. Is this overkill for a bayliner or should I just run a PVC pipe from the ski locker drain running underneath the gas tank connecting to the bilge. If this is a viable solution, how would you suggest getting water out of the gas tank compartment if it does seep in... seeing how there is a PVC pipe connected to the drain?

Note: I am having this thread changed to Boat restoration

 

[Funkiegh_g]

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Ayuh,... Welcome Aboard,.... Yer thinkin' is Flawed,...
There's NO such thing as a water-Proof compartment in a boat....

If ALL yer compartments are set up with limber holes, 'n drainage is complete, down to the pumpable bilge,...
That's 'bout as Good as it gets...

Not allowin' Drainage is what Rots boats....

Hi, just spotted this and it seems to contradict some advice gleaned by Frisco http://friscoboater1995searay.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/little-advise.html... I'm pretty sure he did just seal everything up.

 

[sjohnson44]

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

I will tell you, no matter what you do to it there will always be something that you wish you had done. The best thing is though, whatever you do to fix your draining problem can be easily tested and changed if need be.

I will second the pipe idea for being the one of the best ways to solve the problem. You could also try the 1x3 pieces of wood on the sides of the keel under the tank to hold it up off the keel so water can drain freely. However I think that way will still give you a slow drain from the locker. The water will have to go from the locker and travel through the tank area undirected and hopefully reach the bilge drain. The pipe will actually direct the water straight to the bilge.

 

[maddog238]

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

I will tell you, no matter what you do to it there will always be something that you wish you had done. The best thing is though, whatever you do to fix your draining problem can be easily tested and changed if need be.

I will second the pipe idea for being the one of the best ways to solve the problem. You could also try the 1x3 pieces of wood on the sides of the keel under the tank to hold it up off the keel so water can drain freely. However I think that way will still give you a slow drain from the locker. The water will have to go from the locker and travel through the tank area undirected and hopefully reach the bilge drain. The pipe will actually direct the water straight to the bilge.

So..l should I run a PVC pipe from the ski locker, under the gas tank an connected directly to bilge? If so should the gas tank are be completely closed off or sealed? If so how would any intruded water get out

 

[oops!]

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Hi, just spotted this and it seems to contradict some advice gleaned by Frisco http://friscoboater1995searay.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/little-advise.html... I'm pretty sure he did just seal everything up.

frisco is a good bud......i hope he didnt say that cause he's wrong.....bondo is right.....there is no such thing as a water tight compartment on a boat.....none......we learned that 100 years ago.....(titanic)

this thread has several things that i want to steer correctly.....its on the wrong track....hang on

 

[oops!]

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

ok....first off......one of the worst things you could do is to block off the ski locker....

this area is valuable storage....as well as open in hull ventilation that will dry every thing under the deck every time you drive home with the boat on the trailer...if you dont like looking at the alum flange.....throw a rug over it......but when you drive home....with the boat on the trailer....open the locker.

now....as bondo said.....there is no such thing as a water proof compartment in a boat......that is totally true.

case in point.....place a sealed tupperware container in your boat....and go boating.....OH.,..LOOK, CONDENSATION

virtually every area in the boat MUST have limber holes.

even the foamed areas....water must travel to the bilge.....

build your boat as if the water was supposed to be in there,,,,not the other way around.
placing a pvc pipe from front to back and thinking that water will travel freely will not do it.
the pvc will actually block the water that is trying to get to the bilge from closed off compartments.

even foamed areas need drainage....and air flow. the air flow will dry the moisture and the water will not collect.
if you are foaming a boat....place a card board tube beside the stringer....and foam it....the card board will deteriorate....and flush to the bilge.now the foam will have a hardend cover where the tube was.....and air will flow, as well, you will have limber holes to the bilge from foamed compartments.

builders like bayliner know this.....but they refuse to put them in because they want you to buy another boat in a few years. why would the mfgrs build a boat that lasts forever ! they would never sell a new boat after a few years.

the good news is ..........we can !!!!!!
and the trick is air flow.......get air under the deck....let it dry out while towing it home !
think about it....its 80 degrees outside when we leave the lake....if we open a ski locker.....that is a 50 mph fan with hot air blowing thru the insides of our hulls !!!!!

building the seat bases is simple....good carpenter or not.... it just takes a little time with a measuring tape and some fiberglass....

keep following what you read here and your build will be great.

i hope i have cleared up some misconceptions

cheers
oops

 

[maddog238]

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Oops, thanks for getting things back on track. As you stated , I will put limber holes. I am uploading a diagram that I drew real quick showing the current stringer layout, location of current drainage holes, and 'crossmembers' (not sure what they are called). When I ripped everything out, I found trapped below the foam next to the stringers with no place to go. I want to use your recommendations and add drainage holes. Additionally, I saw in someone else's threads where they add additional bulkheads for support

So can you or someone else mark up the diagram and recommending 2 things:

1. Location of additional bulkheads
2. Location of limber holes

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

now....as bondo said.....there is no such thing as a water proof compartment in a boat......that is totally true.

Aye..there are many compartments that are water proof .. Sure you can make compartments water proof with FG. .. Unless your talking about how much H2O you trap in said compartment to begin with .

case in point.....place a sealed tupperware container in your boat....and go boating.....OH.,..LOOK, CONDENSATION

I personally dont understand your point there oops! .. Are you suggesting that Condensation happens on the Inside of the container and Not the Outside ? .. Normally Condensation happens on the Outside of said container..

Again..the only water vapor inside a closed system will Condensate is IF/and when the Inner Atmosphere becomes Warmer than the Outside of said enclosed area. ..

build your boat as if the water was supposed to be in there,,,,not the other way around.

keep following what you read here and your build will be great.

i hope i have cleared up some misconceptions

cheers
oops

And I am on the other front..build your boat as if water can not get into were you dont want water to go ..

Water should not go Anywhere other then Overboard !!.. get it off your boat as quick as you can.

YD.

 

[oops!]

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Aye..there are many compartments that are water proof .. Sure you can make compartments water proof with FG. .. Unless your talking about how much H2O you trap in said compartment to begin with .



I personally dont understand your point there oops! .. Are you suggesting that Condensation happens on the Inside of the container and Not the Outside ? .. Normally Condensation happens on the Outside of said container..

Again..the only water vapor inside a closed system will Condensate is IF/and when the Inner Atmosphere becomes Warmer than the Outside of said enclosed area. ..



And I am on the other front..build your boat as if water can not get into were you dont want water to go ..

Water should not go Anywhere other then Overboard !!.. get it off your boat as quick as you can.

YD.

im gonna leave this up for everyone to see for a while before i answer it

 

[oops!]

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

ill just add.....beer bottles and scotch glasses condense on the out side....

terrariums condense water vapor on the inside.

 

[maddog238]

1996 Bayliner Capri (1952) Deck Restoration

Well, my son has a boyscout campout this fri-sat so my boat tinkering time is over until Monday. I tool will wait to see how everyone responds to my weeping hole, bulkhead, stringer delimma

 

[oops!]

Re: 1996 Bayliner Capri (1952) Deck Restoration

enjoy your family time bud !

 

[Funkiegh_g]

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

im gonna leave this up for everyone to see for a while before i answer it

As everyone seems to be taking a breather on this one I thought I'd add my two pennies: The issue is whether water will collect inside a sealed compartment in the boat. Supposing the ingress of water is precluded by plenty of glass fibre then Oops! postulates that moisture trapped in the air will condence and form pools anyway. Warm air is able to carry more moisture than cold air so if the compartment is sealed on a warm humid day and then subsequently cooled (e.g. by the hull being put in contact with cold water), the moisture will condense on the inside, as postulated. Condensation only occurs on the outside of a container when the contents are cooler than the air outside... think of that lovely cold bottle of Bud when it's come out of the fridge and rests a while on the on the counter - lots of condensation on the outside .

The real question is whether the amount of potential trapped moisture inside the closed system would be sufficient to cause rot, and whether this could be worse than the potential damage caused by water entering from the bilge. There are many experienced people out there who could advise on this but unfortunately the advice seems to be contradictory. Hence my earlier reference to Frisco's approach.

While I agree with Oops! on a scientific basis I tend to think that the moisture levels would be too small to cause damage and as long as water is not able to get in and trapped then a sealed system would be better... in fact, if the Titanic actually had sealed compartments it wouldn't have sunk - the problem was that the partition walls didn't reach the lower deck so water cascaded over each one in stages - lumber holes would act in a similar way I think

 

[oops!]

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

The real question is whether the amount of potential trapped moisture inside the closed system would be sufficient to cause rot, and whether this could be worse than the potential damage caused by water entering from the bilge.

unfortunately......this condensation problem IS enough to rot a deck or stringers over prolonged periods of time.
we learn this every time we open a sealed compartment on a boat from the manufacturer.
the first thing we think of is ////wow...water was trapped in there because there was no way for it to get out.
(dont forget the reason we ripped it up to begin with was because it is rot)

as we rip off a deck and see water on top of the foam, when the foam seems to be dry on top.
we wonder ....how did that pool of water get way up on top of that foam....all pooled like that...??
that is from condensation from the cool hull on a hot (and obviously humid) day.
next deck i rip up ill post a vid of the rip......you will see the pooled water on top of the foam.....every time!

hence, because there is no such thing as a water tight compartment on a boat, letting them dry via air flow is the best defence.

the other way, is to totally fill the void with foam....totally. you do that by foaming the hull with the deck on, and pour through relief holes
in the deck.


thank you for typing that out.....i wanted to cool down before typing out that very basic grade 4 science.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

unfortunately......this condensation problem IS enough to rot a deck or stringers over prolonged periods of time.

That was kinda my thrust for my above post. Stringers are actually Enclosed compartments themselves.

Wood has Moisture in it before you encapsulate it in FG. .. if by this premise then we are all doomed to have rotted out stringers Via Condensation within the stringer moisture content.

I dont think it was ever suggested that we start putting in 'vent holes' in our stringer glass. They are completely sealed up.

Yes there are conditions where you will want vent holes ( as I has suggested earlier in this thread about putting vent holes on the upper side of the enclosed compartment ).

But there are also ( IMHO ) conditions and locations where you would want the compartment Completely sealed up with glass.

There is a Debate on If you should limber hole everything..or seal up everything up independently. It is a Debate that no one side will win ( pros and cons to each one ).

For this thread..I think the OP is going to utilize his locker so its kinda a moot point. ..

YD.

PS. .. I will PM you.

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

WOW!!! I was asked to stop by and clear up my post on my blog. That was some ramblings from a boat builder here in my local area, and really was just a guideline for building a boat. I realized about halfway through I was worrying too much about this, and I just needed to build the freakin boat. I just tried to do the best I could and seal the compartments where I did not want water, and hope for the best. Yes there can be condensation, and yes there is no such thing as a seal compartment, so I did what I could. I think the thing that will save my boat the most is the fact she is now out of the rain in covered storage, and the only time she gets wet is when we are at the lake. Between lake trips, she has lots of time to dry out.

So once again, that post was from someone else that was giving me advise... and obviously I did not do them all.

I did seal all the compartments that we on either side, but I kept the skit Locker. The false floors were there from the factory, and that is the reason I put them back. The water flows under the two false floors from the ski locker.

 

[maddog238]

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

Re: Do i need a drain port in the ski locker if I remove/cover the ski locker permant

WOW!!! I was asked to stop by and clear up my post on my blog. That was some ramblings from a boat builder here in my local area, and really was just a guideline for building a boat. I realized about halfway through I was worrying too much about this, and I just needed to build the freakin boat. I just tried to do the best I could and seal the compartments where I did not want water, and hope for the best. Yes there can be condensation, and yes there is no such thing as a seal compartment, so I did what I could. I think the thing that will save my boat the most is the fact she is now out of the rain in covered storage, and the only time she gets wet is when we are at the lake. Between lake trips, she has lots of time to dry out.

So once again, that post was from someone else that was giving me advise... and obviously I did not do them all.

I did seal all the compartments that we on either side, but I kept the skit Locker. The false floors were there from the factory, and that is the reason I put them back. The water flows under the two false floors from the ski locker.

Thanks Friscoboater for your explanation. Based on the culmination of everone's advice, recommendation, and opinions, I've decided not to drill holes in the stringers.