2-strokes legal indefinitely?

[rolmops]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Briggs and Stratton have an electric outboard called the "E-Tec" which has a peak performance of 15 horse and a steady output of 8 horse.The whole thing weighs about 21 pounds.Seeing that a regular 8 horse weighs roughly 65 pounds and the fuel, say 2 gallon,weighs 16 pounds,we have about 60 pounds for batteries and we are still in the same weight class.If you have a spare battery,refuelling is as easy as changing batteries.
The future is closer than we think.

 

[henrye718]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

on lakes I see it happening to even the grandfather in 2 strokes, on the seas no. They will most likly stop building them for marine use one day altogether.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Rolmops states:
Murky,good to see a sign of life from the libertarian folk hero with a weak spot for old towers of power.

Thanks. Good to be back in civilization! I fished Prince William Sound this summer as the "skiff man" on a legal limit seiner. I also went gill netting on the Copper river flats. What a GREAT experience! Been wantin' ta do that fer many years as I have family in that industry.

It warms my heart to read of your commitment to our environment I'm with you all the way.

10-4


I do believe that our old iron seahorses will eventually be replaced.But not by any heavy fuel guzzling 4stroke.That really is just more of the same.
The future will be electrical which is quiet and clean,you just wait and see.

Ya maybe right, but the batteries have issues with weight and disposal, n' libs will not tolerate nuclear power. The net effect may just shift pollution from the actual engine to disposal sites n' power generation sites.



Honestly,wouldn't you love to zip along with only the sound of wind and water in your ears?

Maybe, but ya gotta admit the scream of those old towers as they instantly climb to 6,000 RPMs is kinda sweet.

Can you imagine trolling with the wind in your back but without the exhaust fumes in your nose?

Mine don't smoke so much actually as I keep 'em in good tune, n' I don't troll with em so when I put the hammer down the smoke, (not much really), is way way back were I was not where I am.

I would wax and shine my old iron seahorses and go electric,heck I would rip the engines out and replace them with an electric motor.I can see it now.Here comes a 1957 formerly 35 horse Johnny which is now soundless,no longer loud or smelly and as cream on the cake is now 50 ponies.

I had a 1956 15 horse Rude "fast twin" my father had purchased brand new 'til one of me buddies who was werkin' on RR island left it tied to me dock durrin' a monsoon n' she went under water, (fresh). Never was the same after that, n' one of the berrings, (bushin type) laid down within' the next 10 hours. It was 25 to one straight detergent 30 weight none of that tcw-3 stuff!!! Smoke? Yup. All me current Johnnyrudes are the 50 to 1 with the more modern berrings. I also hated the pressure lines to the gas tank on the old Rude!

I can't wait.

I can. Must be the sign of gettin' old!!! JR

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Stromzilla states: BRP has shown they can build a very clean 2-stroke motor and I suspect that may justify them to be around for some time. However, it may come down to whether or not the buying public wants them.

Hmmmmmmmm........ a lot of people drink Kool aid n' do foolish things. Jus' think about last November as one rather significant example. Kool aid cornsumption still doesn't change the basic facts of life now; does it? Look around the world where nanny mind our bidness US gubmint and the US media don't have as much influence. A lot more two stroke outboards in use. SHOCKIN' AIN'T IT?

So many are switching over to the 4-strokes that I'm starting to question whether or not there will be enough transoms out there that want a 2-stroke to justify keeping the etec lines running.

Hmmmmmmm........ with the status of the US $ and the gubmint spending that would embarass all drunken sailors, I would ponder whether anybody can buy any boats at all down stream a bit from here......

What's interesting is the new direct injection 2-strokes are only slightly lighter than the newest 4-stroke motors i.e. 130 etec: 390 lbs, Suzuki 140 4-stroke: 410 lbs. The gap has narrowed with weight. IMO the only reason to buy a 2-stroke is because of the great all-around performance of the 2-strokes.

Yes, two strokes do perform. Ya see it is real simple, (as two strokes are fairly simple), unless nanny gubmint forces cornplications upon the basic design fer political correctness.

Ya see there is an explosion on every rotation of the crankshaft on a two stroke. Four strokes explode every other rotation and have a lot of additional cornplicated iron that needs to also rotate for intake and exhaust valves et al fer a four stroke ta run.

And the reason for buying a 4-stroke would be for the much better long-term durability, and reliability.

OH REALLY??? Imagine that.

How many 30 and 40 year old four strokes ya see runnin' out there these days there Sonny????

I don't think you thought about what you were typin' before makin' this post.

I have a 1967 virgin 950 and two 1969 virgin 1000(s) that would blow the doors off any 100 HP four stroke ever made. PERIOD. They have never been rebuilt, (still have the wire nuts from the factory), n' run like Swiss watches.

Ya think two stokes have a dependability problem ya care to expand about, as I would like to learn how terribly unreliable those two strokes yer talking about are.


So when you look at many of the applications involving the hanging of a new outboard, it really doesn't surprise me that so many people are switching over to the 4-stroke motors. Personally I love the 2-stroke motor. But I have a real problem with the latest technology involving the use of greased bearings in the lower end to minimize the emissions. I'm familiar with greased lower end bearings in other applications and they don't get it for me from a longterm durability standpoint.

Respectfully, JR

 

[pecheux]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

I would like to backup JR ... I am a 2 strokes lover and fanatic myself ...

I happen to own a 28 years old Johnson that has never touched by a mecanic ... except for my own normal yearly oil and grease maintenance.

Any 4 strokes owners out there that can make that claim ??
I did'nt think so ... G

 

[Knightgang]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

The manufacture of two strokes has already been stopped. I hope they are not banned all together as there are still alot of them out there and most will disappear from natural selection as parts are harder to get, boats get older, neglected and junked. Some will still survive for many many years to come, but eventually, the majority will be gone, just like cars. That said, i hope mine continues running for quite some time, but I do hope to upgrade boats in the next few years and I hope to get something new enough that it has a four stroke....

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

The manufacture of two strokes has already been stopped.

Simply not true.

 

[pecheux]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

BRP has managed to produce a 2 strokes (E-Tech) that is cleaner than a 4 strokes ... proof in the pudding that 4 strokes is a temporary patch ... same as hybrid cars since at this time the cleanest non electric vehicule on earth is a diesel powered Fiat. (yea hard to beleve but reality)

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Simply not true.

Agreed.

Kool aid is real powerful stuff, n' if ya drink enough of it yer brain actually stops werkin'!


If ya don't live in North America, you would hardly know it was "politically correct" ta have a four stroke outboard, n' ya surely wouldn't care about the sensabilities of the North American fools who are sooo drunk on Kool aid that they actually believe the false propaganda they hear from the media Gunmint n' Industry. BTW: the industry wants ya to spend more money on a heavier more cormplicated engine with far greater maintence issues and a neccessisarily heavier boat that actually burns more not less E10 junk fuel, (another popular polically correct farce), n' generates more (not less) emissions n' repair bills et al.

I luv ta pass a Lib smugly drivin' a Prius (under the speed limit of course ), in the fast lane in me gas guzzlin' SUV almost as much as I luv blowin' by a heavy pig of a four stroke 125 -150 horse hog of an engine on a heavy boat in me 40 year old screamin' smokin' purdy old black girl on me vintage boat with me 1000, (100 hp at the crank not prop).

They really look down their long Liberal snarky noses as they smell me two stroke fumes n' ponder what that loud scream was that blew by em n' made 'em feel they have slipped into reverse, (as they were on it all the way). They get ta sneer at me stern as they surely can't catch me any time in this lifetime unless I let 'em!!!!!! JR

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Simply not true.

The 2009 DFI(Direct Fuel Injected...not carburated) Evinrude 2-strokes are some of the nicest machines ever created by mankind and I doubt they will stop manufacturing them any time soon.

They bear little resemblance to the older 2-strokes that people think of when they hear the term.

 

[rolmops]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Agreed.

Kool aid is real powerful stuff, n' if ya drink enough of it yer brain actually stops werkin'!


If ya don't live in North America, you would hardly know it was "politically correct" ta have a four stroke outboard, n' ya surely wouldn't care about the sensabilities of the North American fools who are sooo drunk on Kool aid that they actually believe the false propaganda they hear from the media Gunmint n' Industry. BTW: the industry wants ya to spend more money on a heavier more cormplicated engine with far greater maintence issues and a neccessisarily heavier boat that actually burns more not less E10 junk fuel, (another popular polically correct farce), n' generates more (not less) emissions n' repair bills et al.

I luv ta pass a Lib smugly drivin' a Prius (under the speed limit of course ), in the fast lane in me gas guzzlin' SUV almost as much as I luv blowin' by a heavy pig of a four stroke 125 -150 horse hog of an engine on a heavy boat in me 40 year old screamin' smokin' purdy old black girl on me vintage boat with me 1000, (100 hp at the crank not prop).

They really look down their long Liberal snarky noses as they smell me two stroke fumes n' ponder what that loud scream was that blew by em n' made 'em feel they have slipped into reverse, (as they were on it all the way). They get ta sneer at me stern as they surely can't catch me any time in this lifetime unless I let 'em!!!!!! JR

Murky,does it say "Respectfully Yours" on your stern? Or does it have an "Up" in the middle?

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Murky,does it say "Respectfully Yours" on your stern? Or does it have an "Up" in the middle?

Most of me boats, (as viewed from the stern), have a purdy, tall, shinny black engine n' maybe some wheel wash, (if she is underway ). I don't tend ta have any written stuff on the stern, other then the decals on the old black girls, (white or blue if yer lookin' at one of me Johnnyrudes).

I have been known ta give the one fingered peace sign a time or two if some snarky Lib tries ta mind me bidness, (but that is very rare that will happen: my friend!!!!)

Respectfully, JR

 

[seahorse5]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

...are old cars that pollute much more than new ones, legal indefinitely ?

 

[tnduc]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Nothing I like better than the sound of a tuned 2-stroke.

 

[thefairlaneman]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

I love the smell of an old 2 stroke in the morning. My neighbor who has a late model 4 stroke came running across the street when I was tank testing my old merc 300. He wanted to smell the oil and hear her run up close..He did

 

[pecheux]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Same thing happen to me early this summer as I was tank testing a 6 hp letting run at idle for an extended period of time ... a neighbor came over so I thought I should apologise for the oil smell carried over to his place by the wind ... I was surprised by his similar comment on how he loooved the smell of 2 stokes ... of course it has to be TC-W3 certified petroleum base oil .... LOL LOL (and it was ...)

 

[QC]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Ya really like the Gubmint to corntrol each and every little thing do ya? The results are stunnin' if ya have a brain cell that still functions.

Did you lose a few brain cells during your absence? What have I ever posted that you could glean that from? Welcome back, respectfully

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

QC quipped: Did you lose a few brain cells during your absence?

Since I only have one functional cell left losin' a few maybe a BIG problem fer me.

What have I ever posted that you could glean that from?

I went back and re-read yer post n' since I couldn't figure out who "Roger" is that you were postin' a reply to, what I took for a pro regulation statement on yer part at the time I replied may have been an error of me pesky brain cell. SOOOOOOO SORRRRRRRY if I made that mistake.

I'm not pro regulation: QC, especially if they are environmental wacko big corporate farmer based counter productive regs shoved down our collective throats as requirin' tax payer subsidized corn based alcohol in fuel et al.

If you were not makin' a pro Kalifornia regulation post I appologize fer me error. If on the other hand you were makin' a pro Nanny Gubmint mind all our bidness statement me criticizm stands.

Welcome back, respectfully

Thanks its is good ta be back in God's Country even if I have ta drive a few extra miles ta get me dyno, (non E10), fuel fer me hungry old black girls ta drink!!! Respectfully, JR

 

[Knightgang]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

The manufacture of two strokes has already been stopped.

Simply not true.

I realized my error after I posted this. I was refering to Larger HP 2 strokes and was not including E-tec into the catagory. However, I did notice that HPDI Yamaha 2 strokes are also still being manufactured.

Either way, I still do not feel that the US Government will up and outright BAN all two stroke engines and risk a revolt from millions of boat owners...

 

[SeaNymph Man]

Re: 2-strokes legal indefinitely?

Legacy 2-Strokes? ...even though some people will hate me.. hopefully, yes.

I just went for a swim at Kawkawa lake in Hope BC, and I couldn't get over the persistent oil film all over the lake. My kid was swimming in it! I definitely won't be taking him back there.. and this is a beautiful area. I would hope that the powers that be being to enforce some restrictions where there is clear and obvious negative impact. OR environmentally tested impact, where thresholds are defined, and when a lake hits its, 2 strokes get banned.

The new engines, especially the new e-tecs, are amazing.. you can barely smell them, let alone perceive any oil or sludge coming out of them. The technology is here.. if you don't want to go four stroke, get a new 2 stroke with DFI.

You may have just given me an idea for a new topic without even knowing it,but before I begin the thread at all,let me say this; I have an old 1964 Fastwin 18 Evinrude that indeed belches out a cloud of blue smoke when you start it up and then leaves a cloud of blue smoke behind as you motor away from the dock. Yes,it also leaves an oily sheen on the water,and makes me wonder how that is affecting the enviroment,...most likely not good and I,too,
would not want to swim around in that junk. I am not a tree hugging enviromentalist by any means,but it does concern me somewhat as to the
impact my old outboard is having on our enviroment. If Evinrude can get their E-TEC DFI two strokes down to 25 HP,then why can't Mercury do that with the Optimax? That may be another whole topic separate from this one,but
think about it. Both brands are 3-star EPA rated on their DFI two strokes,so
why not? I would be all for DFI technology two strokes taking place of the old carbed two strokes completely if I were to decide against a four stroke
outboard!