87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

[rickryder]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Nice work my friend. Did you check with the manufacturer and see if the foam was structural? Pour foam is not all that bad and can really help with puncture resistance and rigidity.

Never checked with them about that but the hull on this boat is pretty thick and the stringer and bulkhead design seems pretty solid.
I will shoot them an e-mail about it just to ask.

 

[GracieBell1]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Hey Rick,
When I spoke to FW they said they used 2lb. foam. The big thing he said was that the pour foam would make the boat feel more solid and not hollow. With what lttle you had to use I don't think it will make a huge difference. The problem you may run into is the fumes from the polyester underside of the deck could breakdown the foamover time. Lowes sells the blue siding foam that is NOT extruded polystyrene and should not be eaten by the chemicals and resin..

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

RR,
Your Foam is NOT structural. I agree with using the BLUE OR PINK foam. Your White stuff COULD break down over time. The Blue or Pink stuff...Probably NOT. Up to you though.

 

[IceWater]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Hi Ice,
We didn't have to do the transom. The deck and stringers took about 2 days with 2 of us. Preping the hull for the new wood took about 4 more.... I think we have about 175 man hours in the project so far,but we had some tough working conditions. Snow cold and being in a tarped in structure not a garage. We didn't pull the cap so working under and around it was a pain.... I can't wait till we can pull the tarp off and work in the open air! Running back and forth for tools and supplies ate up time,could have done it in half the time if it was in a shop

Thanks, that's a big help. From what you and others have told me I have decided to rebuild this boat starting in September. It should have at least one more good summer in it.

 

[RBagdon]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Your Foam is NOT structural. I agree with using the BLUE OR PINK foam. Your White stuff COULD break down over time. The Blue or Pink stuff...Probably NOT. Up to you though.

That is the blue Dow foam.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

I meant, the injected foam that you removed originally from the boat, WAS NOT structural to the boat. It MIGHT have made the boat FEEL and SOUND more solid but it did NOT yield any structural integrity to the boat, Only flotation, AND the before mentioned attributes. The foam you are adding now, will STILL yield the same flotation qualities. I'm pretty sure the Pink and Blue stuff from Lowes and HD are suceptible to chemicla reaction too!

 

[rickryder]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Checked with Four Winns about the foam....their reply

Thank you for writing. In 1987 the flotation foam was indeed for flotation and not structural. Please let us know if you have any questions.

Thank you,

Four Winns Boats, LLC.

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

I am glad you checked. I know some of these boats depend on the stuff. I will be putting the pour in type back in my boat. I have been in boats without it (my glastron, and others) and boats with it, and there is no comparison on interior noise level and stiffness. I do not want the boat flexing at all. Now i might have the rot problem again, but I think if I build it right, I will not have that issue. Great job on the boat.

 

[infideltarget]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Ahhhhh to heck with all of it. Just go get a crap load of foam peanuts, fill what you can with 'em, then spray a coupla' cans o' great stuff in thar, an' seal 'er up! Then thro ya' a coupla' sheets of that siding styrofoam stuff under tha' carpet...that'll kill the sound! Good ta' go!
















I am, of course, kidding. The boat is looking great!

 

[GracieBell1]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

I meant, the injected foam that you removed originally from the boat, WAS NOT structural to the boat. It MIGHT have made the boat FEEL and SOUND more solid but it did NOT yield any structural integrity to the boat, Only flotation, AND the before mentioned attributes. The foam you are adding now, will STILL yield the same flotation qualities. I'm pretty sure the Pink and Blue stuff from Lowes and HD are suceptible to chemicla reaction too!



The above statement may be a little misleading. The foam that you are using does not offer the density that 2lb foam does. It will not offer the same boyency and displacement that 2lb foam will. As for the structural issue. When this is said in the boating industry it is ment that it will not serve as a structural member like a stringer. My Mckee Craft only has foam no stringers. The foam bonded to the glass. It was 1.3lb foam compressed to about 3lb. But make no bones about it, the foam you have offers stiffnes and support for the hull and deck. Without this foam it will be a different boat as foar as handling and feel. Not trying to make anyone mad just clerify. On my liberator in the motor well the deck support that comes off of the stringer/motor mount has a 90 deg. turn up for the deck support. When the foam is poured it filles under this spot offering support for that turn. Otherwise the weight from the deck and back seat cal make this collapse over time. As you can see from these pics foam will fill under the deck support/stringer design and as you know when you stand on this foam in your boat it is very solid.

 

[rickryder]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Well the original foam on the starboard motor mount side is sill there.. Port side of motor mount is now solid Nida Bond.... My bilge bulkhead now extends across to the outer stringers and Four Winns used 1/2" ply for the deck and I have 5/8". The boat is more solid then when it was made....Plus all the glass work done way beyond anything FW ever did.....The blue foam is in and the deck is down.....It's a done deal at this point!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

My Mckee Craft only has foam no stringers. The foam bonded to the glass.

My POINT EXACTLY. That IS when foam IS Structural. In the Absence of stingers and a below deck substructure that is attacthed to the hull. When this substructure DOES exist the foam is deemed to be NON Structural and while it Can lend itself to some stiffening of the hull it is NOT required for structural Integrity. Your points on bouyancy are well taken, however the amount of Foam that RR has in his boat at this time, WILL keep it afloat to a certain degree, at least OFF THE BOTTOM!!!

 

[GracieBell1]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Rick,
Please don't get me wrong. I think you have done an outstanding job. As you know, your pictures and support have helped me greatly. I agree totaly Woodonglass. especialy the "off the bottom" crack.LMAO

 

[MAXXIE]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Can we please leave the "foam arguing" to somewhere else? Like rick said "foam is in, deck is down, done deal" one way or another. I really don't give a sh*t about the right & wrong of foam. I want to see & read more about this build. Thank You.

 

[GracieBell1]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Can we please leave the "foam arguing" to somewhere else? Like rick said "foam is in, deck is down, done deal" one way or another. I really don't give a sh*t about the right & wrong of foam. I want to see & read more about this build. Thank You.

Wow Maxxie that was completely uncalled for. You should use better edicate and pay attention because nobody is arguing. It's called an Intelligent conversation...

 

[infideltarget]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Checked with Four Winns about the foam....their reply

Thank you for writing. In 1987 the flotation foam was indeed for flotation and not structural. Please let us know if you have any questions.

Thank you,

Four Winns Boats, LLC.

I think this post addressed all foam concerns with this particular boat. I like the out of the box, DIY thinking that Rick and his bro have put into this. Innovation and improvisation. Doing this on a real world poor man's budget. Not just going out and buying the top-o-the-line stuff because he can, whether its needed or not. He has done his research, used what was needed, where it was needed, and did the best he can with what he has to work with. Damn fine job. Next installment please!

 

[rickryder]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

OK easy guys.... Were all here to learn from one another. I know that GB was just being thorough and had concerns about whats the best foam to use...... I take no offence if I'm questioned about what and why I'm doing.

Like infideltarget said This is a poor workin mans rebuild.....if I was a professional boat rebuilder with a shop and had the luxury of spending someone else's money it would be a different story....but I'm just an old carpenter/auto mechanic with a mortgage and 3 kids in college.... I'll buy what I have to and fabricate what I can.....and damn proud of it!

The next installment will have to wait till next weekend because of work on Saturday and my Mom and Son's birthday Sunday.
Gives me time to get some things needed to get the motor ready to fire.

 

[Fingernip]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

You have any plans yet for the deck surface? gellcoat,carpet,paint? I have been thinking of rolling on gelcoat but thinking about laying screening over the deck and giving it a few coats of resin to see how well it prints through. Then rolling gelcoat over that and using snap in carpet for the barefoot days.

 

[rickryder]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

Were on the same page Fingernip. The deck will be 1708 biax then 4oz cloth,gel coat rolled on for texture and a snap in carpet. When fishing or crabbing we'll take the carpet out so the deck is easy to clean and put it in for just boat outings with family and friends

 

[MAXXIE]

Re: 87 Four Winns 210 Horizon resto

OK, sorry. Just got tired of reading the bickering back & forth on what seemed like the "what came first the chicken or the egg" thing. I'll be more understanding from now on. Ok, back to the resto.