'89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

[89avanti]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

Nah, I think you've fallen. That looks like ALIEN work to me!!!:lol:

It does look abstract. If I didn't know what I was looking at I'd be thoroughly confused.

 

[sevanseriesta]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

89avanti, I know exactly how you feel. I started my boat project last year with no knowledge of what I was doing. Sometimes the hardest part is just getting in and doing it cause you dont want to mess anything up. Wait till you start using the resin and the fiberglass and making your own PB it took me 4 weeks to get the nerve just to cut a piece of fiberglass. Now the only thing holding me back is not having enough supplies, you can look through my thread as well. I ask a lot of the same question you are. Be happy that people around here dont just say, "Just go read some other threads, they have already asked what you are" I have been on boards like that before. People here dont make fun of you cause you dont know the correct terms as well,is really nice.

Anyway I will try to help but I can only do so much, as This is my first project but you catch on fast.

Heres mine feel free to take a look...

http://forums.iboats.com/boat-restoration-building-hull-repair/master-baitr-restore-thread-568615.html

 

[89avanti]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

Cut the rest of the decking out last night. Went back over it and got meticulous with how close I came to the hull. It looks good and clean. I ran into issues when I got back to the bilge area though. Questions.

1. How far down should I cut on the bilge area? That whole engine area is solid. I don't want to make more work for myself than I have to do so should I cut around the bilge area flush with the deck, as pictured in one of the images, and when I install the new deck just overlap the glass and resin and all that into the bilge area to repair it?








2. As you're facing the back of the boat, on the right side next to the engine there is a raised area that's built into the deck. It's solid but as it's part of the old deck, it's coming out. I took a few pictures but I have no idea what this is for. It looks like maybe where the battery is being elevated from the deck?? Do I build this back when I put the new deck in? Confused.



3. I tested the transom again and the right side is the only side that has rot and that's because the PO drilled holes through the thing and did not use any silicone to fill the holes. I DO NOT want to rip out good transom if I don't have to. Is it possible for me to cut the right side out and repair it without taking the entire transom out?

4. There are pieces of 5-6" fiberglass laid over the stringers and bulkheads stapled down with some pretty large rusted staples. I will take it all out but I'm assuming once the new stringers and bulkheads are in I will need to lay down this fiberglass again like the original was and staple back as they had it. If this is accurate what type of stables should I use?

5. The side stringers are coming out today. I have to go buy some wood to start making my new ones. I'm still reluctant to take out the old glass that the old stringers are sitting in. It seems I could just make the new ones and swap old for new and be done. I know someone has told me that while they wouldn't recommend it, it's possible to do it that way. Seems like a hell of a huge step I could bound over.






Thanks guys. 4th of July is quickly approaching.

 

[89avanti]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

 

[89avanti]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

Made a trip to West Marine today. Spoke with one of the restoration specialists and picked up some supplies for the upcoming stringer and bulkhead waterproofing project. One more mini project in the mix of a larger much more complicated goal.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

A full width pic of your transom would be needed in order to determine if you could do a partial transom replacement. Is there any particular reason you've decided to use epoxy rather than Polyester resin? I order to do your boat you'll be spending almost $1,000 dollars for Epoxy.

 

[89avanti]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

A full width pic of your transom would be needed in order to determine if you could do a partial transom replacement. Is there any particular reason you've decided to use epoxy rather than Polyester resin? I order to do your boat you'll be spending almost $1,000 dollars for Epoxy.

I spent over an hour talking to one of the boat restoration instructors at West Marine here in Knoxville and after showing him what I was working with he told me to use one coat of the the epoxy with the hardener to waterproof the wood for the new stringers and to use the epoxy with the filler on the bottom and sides of the new stringers before I slide it down in the existing fiberglass where the stringers used to be. Place something heavy on it or use clamps (which is what I planned to do) and let it set up then put some 4" fiber with epoxy resin over the stringers with some corrosive-free staples. Said the bond would be strong and save time and money.

He mentioned why he went for the epoxy resin and filler for the stringers against the polyester but I was on information overload by then. He suggested using the polyester for the deck due to the cost savings but was adamant about the epoxy on the stringers for whatever reason. Strength or bond maybe?

Does this sound right?

I'm taking the brush to the stringers in about an hour.

 

[89avanti]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

I did more research regarding the epoxy resin compared to the polyester and it's very clear that epoxy will adhere better to already cured fiberglass than traditional polyester resin for repairs so I am going to stick with the epoxy I have for the stringers. The deck is another story. Maybe using epoxy around the edges where it marries to the hull but polyester for everything else.

Anyone able to second my thoughts here?

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

If you start w/ epoxy in 1 area, you need to stay w/ epoxy for that area.......

Filleting or tabbing the deck to the hull w/ epoxy will necessitate using epoxy for both the deck & all the tabbing. Polyester resin won't adhere well (Gelcoat won't either) to epoxy. Since you will need to use some fiberglass (tabbing) w/ the epoxy for the deck~hull joint, you won't be 'saving' money using epoxy for the hull~deck joint.

WOG has an excellent graphic & info in his signature link: "Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms"

I don't doubt the tech specialist or restoration expert at West, but they are in the business of selling products, not rebuilding boats.

The vast majority of the restos undertaken in the resto forum are done w/ poly resin (it's what your boat is made from) similar to or exactly like WOG's graphic ^^^.

And it sounds like the West guy is in favor of removing the wood & leaving the fiberglass stringer 'shell' and sliding new wood into the previous cavity. Again, read thru some resto threads, by far, the vast majority do not do it that way. And most that have discussed it, don't either....

In the end, it is your boat, and it is up to you to decide how you think it's best to rebuild your boat.

Boat & boat resto safely.

 

[89avanti]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

Thanks JB. I hold the advice you guys have been giving me and the knowledge you've bestowed upon me very high in my decision-making process. I've read more after what you've said and have decided to use epoxy on the stringers and polyester on the deck & deck tabbing. The epoxy on the stringers won't touch the poly on the decking and tabbing so there will be no problem with the poor poly to epoxy bond. Since epoxy bonds extremely well with already cured polyester however, I've decided to use it on the stringers. The fact that epoxy is ~20% stronger than polyester was also a huge deciding factor where the stringers are concerned. A molecular bond, 20% stronger sounds worth the 3-5x increase in cost.

I pulled my poly vs epoxy info from Don Cassey's 'Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual' and 'This Old Boat' the bible for do-it-yourself boaters.

As you said JB ... boat & boat resto safely. I'm arming myself with knowledge and trying to shoot the money flow into where it counts most on structure. I think my choice for epoxy vs poly in the stringers is an educated decision but before absorbing what you and Wood said I was very hesitant to pull the trigger on one vs the other.

Thanks for your expert advice as always guys. I'll post some pictures when I get the stringers worked up and ready for install. I had to build some saw horses. That took like 4 hours. LOL. /sigh

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

If it were my build, and I was cost conscious....

I would still pull the motor, remove the whole transom and remove the fiberglass that originally held the stringers and start over with a complete redo. Rot in the transom will not be limited to one area. if the wood is wet, it needs to come out because it will not dry, only eventually rot.

I also would grind with a 24 grit disc, then pick up poly and it like the sketch in WOG's thread.

the 20% increase in strength is subjective, the cost of 3 - 5X is simply not worth it in my mind.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

I agree that epoxy is stronger and offers better water resistant characteristics. If you want to do the stringers with epoxy I see no problem in doing so. You might want to investigate Vinylester. It's a kind of a cross between Epoxy and Poly.

 

[89avanti]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

I agree that epoxy is stronger and offers better water resistant characteristics. If you want to do the stringers with epoxy I see no problem in doing so. You might want to investigate Vinylester. It's a kind of a cross between Epoxy and Poly.

That's what I was thinking Wood. I've already covered the new stringers with the first layer of epoxy. I read that vinylester is something of a cross between polyester and epoxy and is typical substituted for polyester when improved resistance to moisture permeation is the objective. I also read that vinylester resin is often used when resurfacing a badly blistered hull, but for most other do-it-yourself repairs, I should probably choose the economy of polyester or the strength (and impermeability) of epoxy.

I like the word vinylester ... sounds like an 80s disco DJ.


TRANSOM - here is where I am with my transom. Only the right side, where the ladder was screwed into the hull and not properly sealed, is rotten. I drilled 8 core samples all over the thing in the middle and the left side and no rot whatsoever. I can't make myself take the entire transom out when 2/3 of it is good still. Can I not cut the right side of the transom out and replace that, only? Would it be safe to assume the entire transom is not one large piece? The middle is 1 1/2" and the sides are 3/4".

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

If the rot in the transom is only affecting the "Wing portion of the transom and not the 1 1/2" center section where the keyhole is, then yes you could prolly get by with only replacing the rotted wing section.

 

[89avanti]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

If the rot in the transom is only affecting the "Wing portion of the transom and not the 1 1/2" center section where the keyhole is, then yes you could prolly get by with only replacing the rotted wing section.

Thanks Wood. That makes me feel much better when it comes to the total transom replacement. I understand that it would be acceptable to tear it all down to nothing and build it back while I'm in there but I don't have the time nor the money to do all that. I don't plan on keep the boat forever but if I did I'd be building from the ground up. Regardless, I put some pictures of where the wing portion of the transom that is rotten.



I'm also concerned with all of the wires. Does anyone recommend a way to keep them all organized? Or maybe even a way to sort them all out??? It's a rats nest.



Here is the progress so far.



There was a piece of 4" 1x that was going embedded in the foam, hanging over the stringers a bit on both sides. Wonder why they did that?

 

[89avanti]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

Found another interesting point when I was tearing out the stringers. Apparently the stringer is not one large 12' piece of wood. It's a 9' piece which goes back to the bilge and then from there it overlaps another 1x8 about 10" and continues back to the transom. Wonder why they did it that way? Surely using two boards doesn't increase strength?? Regardless, I got some Titebond III and luckily I hadn't put the epoxy on both sides of the stringer yet. So... now I can glue the two virgin sides together and get that bond I needed before I epoxy the rest of it.

Shwewwww. Dodged a bullet on that one.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

The 1x4 was where the floor seam was

 

[89avanti]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

Another question. Does anyone know how the cooler is attached to the boat? I want to take it out to see what's under it. I tried moving it but it's solid.

 

[89avanti]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

The 1x4 was where the floor seam was

AHHHhhhh. That makes sense. It will be where the new floor seam resides as well.

Thanks Scott. Should I go all the way across or just hang over 4-5" like it was?

 

[89avanti]

Re: '89 Bayliner Avanti restoration - where to start?

Scott I think you mentioned gel coating the cooler and bilge in one of your replies to me. What type of gel coating should I buy, are there any "gotcha's" with gel coating and are those the only places I should consider gel coating?

Thanks