"Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

[rodbolt]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

hello<br /> there is a lot more to the labor rate than just charging warrenty. warrenty work is a money loser no matter how ya work it. most shops have at least 2 admin type people on the staff. they suck off 40K a year from the service dept just in salary and bennies and provide no shop income. when the factory decides you need a tool or some software or other silly things they send it to you and bill you for it. when the wintertime comes and it gets a bit slow most dealers pay the techs to go to school. another 3 to 10 k per year. also the shop is slower and the admin staff still have to eat. and sometimes the time alloted for warrenty is a joke. it all comes down to the technical capeability of the entire staff. from the parts room to tyhe admin to the service tech on the floor. I know of 2 shops in norfolk that wont work on anything older than 7 years. they are fair about it and have signs posted everywhere. they will also refer you to a dealership that may help. I personnaly dont like an arbitrary time limit. but stuff like the pics on the high speed slipping post in the stern drive forum scare me. if I went out to a boat like that I would not even get in it. I would call the customer and tell him if he could get it out in 24 hours I would not charge anything.<br /> to me a rig like that is not only a money loser but a liability issue as well. but on this forum I will help anyway I can as most other techs that post here do.

 

[CaptainPuget]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

If I bring an out-of-warranty engine into a repair shop (any shop authorized or not) it is because I am trying to save some time. I can fix it myself but the shop should be able to fix it faster. All I ask is:<br /><br />1. If you don’t want to work on it tell me up front. Don’t waste my time.<br />2. If you do work on it – be professional about it. Don’t screw it up worse than it was before I brought it in then try to sell me a new engine.<br /><br />I’ll give you two actual examples of service that I’ve received.<br /><br />First a 1979 Evinrude 70 – died and wouldn’t start. My instructions were to fix it but don’t do anything to heroic, it’s over 20 years old. Later that day I got a call to pick it up, new switchbox (powerpack that is), put in new plugs while we were at it, runs great, that will be $295.00. Thank you Bayside Marine, Everett WA – you are very worth every penny and then some. I ran it for 4 more years before I sold it, no problems.<br /><br />Case 2 (different shop) – 1985 Merc 115hp. Hard to start, dies at low speed, runs fine at high speed. My instructions were to fix it but don’t do anything to heroic, it’s over 20 years old. 3 days later I call – what’s up. Oh we haven’t gotten around to it. 3 more days I call – Oh we looked at it and it needs a rebuild will cost you $3500.00 – low compression on one hole and no spark on two. Me – I don’t think so, I’ll pick it up – it sparked fine when I brought it in. I get the hard sale’s pitch to fix it, when I don’t go for it I get the hard sale’s pitch on a new engine. They don’t have one but they can order me one and it will be in few weeks. When I get the rig home I find that they not only burned up my switch boxes but they didn’t even bother to tighten the plugs up or put the wire boots back on the terminals. Of course I paid the standard one hour minimum for this “service”.<br /><br />If I ever need service again or I do decide to buy a new engine which one do you think I should deal with?

 

[Clams Canino]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

Yanno....... it's safer to get a compression tester at Sears and do a basic check of compression and then spark availability BEFORE taking a "strange motor" to a shop.<br /><br />Not only are you armed with **the truth**, but the shop will see that you're not a total schmuck that's easy to fool. Plus you saved them (and your wallet) a little time.<br /><br />To go back to the original post, Headhunt was armed with that basic info, and it helped.<br /><br />-W

 

[CaptainPuget]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

Yes, I know. I have the compression tester hanging on the garage wall. Wouldn’t buy a used motor without it but it comes back to the time thing. And why should I have to troubleshoot a motor before taking it to a shop? I think I’ll just adopt the philosophy of fixing it myself.

 

[NMplayer]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

DHP, I'm asking you to work on my Mercury Motor(or whatever brand), because you just happened to be.....you guessed it, a Mercury dealership. Forgive me, I guess my logic was bad.<br /><br />Of course you have a few years on my motor thats why I figured you could fix it. I would take it to an independent if I could find one.<br /><br />Maybe you guys can finally get to the point that outboards are disposable. If it fails after 2 years, throw it away because its not worth servicing. Sort of like a TV.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

capt<br /> and your the classic customer that I wont work for. if a customer comes in and says its FUBAR but I dont want to spend more than 100 dollars(happens weekly) I will politely explain that a diagnosis will most likely cost that. with no repairs.<br /> if the customer already knows whats wrong odds are the rest of the rig is a junker. on that 115. what testing (DVA outputs and correct spark testing) did you do to determine the switch box was working properly before ya took it in?<br /> I try to do an overall assesment of each motor regardless of age to determine if I can do a reliable repair. its also rare that I will use old parts anymore. a case was in the summer of 03 a friend talked me into working on an old inline 6. after a complete diagnosis I determined the trigger had an intermittant failure. took about 2 hours on the water with a pair of 250 dollar apiece cd_77 meters. priced a new trigger from merc. memory says it was almost 350 dollars. so a few days later they show up half drunk with a distributer they bought at a boat junkyard. talked me into installing it. now we have about 5 hours in this motor at 75 per hour and he paid about 150 for a 24 year old electronic part. a few weeks later he is back with a trigger failure again. only now he and his drunken buddy have tried to fix it. they somehow determined the no spark condition was a rotor problem and removed it. seeing as the rotor is molded on the shaft on this model its now broken. trigger still costs about 350 and the rotor/shaft assy is about 100. and it takes 4-5 hours to dissasemble and reassemble this dist and set the timing again.<br /> the place he bought the part from says its his. its going to cost way more now to fix it and he is already out over 500 dollars, drunk and mad. goes off on me and is hollering about stopping checks and calling police and attorneys. the only mistake I made was in working on junk. if you think I cut my labor your nuts. if anyone asks me to cut my labor I ask them to work for a week at their job and not clock in.

 

[CaptainPuget]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

That’s fine Rodbolt, just tell me upfront if you don’t want to work on it. Hopefully on the phone before I bring it in. I don’t begrudge you your fee, it’s worth paying it to me to determine if the unit is repairable or not. I also understand that that is your livelihood. I just ask that you don’t screw me or treat me like an idiot.

 

[NMplayer]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

rodbolt, I can sure see how that would be frustrating. My only question is, Has the same sort of thing ever happened on a 5 year old motor?

 

[rodbolt]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

yep

 

[HeadHunt]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

I think it works both ways. I am sure some terrible, unrealistic customers bring their junk into dealerships and expect cheap miracles. On the other hand, I know there some dealerships that are not perfect either. I guess the point is like we have heard before, do your own research on your rig (like on I-Boats) and find a mechanic you can trust. Some people learn the hard way by getting ripped off and some dealers also have learned the hard way by working on junk.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

however its rather rare. most the time its on mercs with switchbox/stator issues. most the time its a no spark issue. test the stator and its bad, replace the stator. now we have an output from the stator and still no spark. switchbox is bad as well. now I goitta call up and say not only did I spent 469 dollars on the red stator kit but you owe another hour labor and 165 dollars for a switchbox.there is no test for a bad switchbox other than all good inputs and no outputs.merc reccomends replacing all switch boxes at stator replacement and replacing both if one fails. but now this customer has already spent a week convincing the wife and arranging a bank loan and I get to hit him with another 250 or so. not long after that the customer is on a rage. but for the most part there is no problem on a 5 year old motor as compared to the 25 year old one. I try to help everyone. however this is how I make my bank payments. if I spent 5 hours drilling broken bolts and heating out bearing carriers ya get charged the 5 hours plus any materiels I used. helicoil kits start at 35 dollars a pop and good cobalt drill bits start at over 5 apiece and dont last long at all.last time I looked national welders was not donating oxygen nor acetylene. and if I go to the bank and say I have only worked on junkers and the guys could not pay they still dont give me a break. if I spend 2 hours on the phone with skipper B up in wisconsin or other sources tracking down a part that has been NLA for 15 years I bill for it. so it comes down to a judgement call on my part. I would rather you be mad at me cause I told you my opinion of your rig than mad cause halfway through the project I had to call and double my estimate or just tell you the part is not avalible new and we will spend a day hunting for a hopefully good one.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

About ten minutes ago I received a call from a man with a 3.5 hp. He said that it would not start and was dripping gas out of the carb. I told him that it was probably a stuck needle valve in the carb. He asked me how much to fix it and could he wait on it. I told him he would need to leave it because we have to soak the carb in cleaner, but that he could pick it up tomorrow. I also told him that it would run around $100.00 to repair. He asked me "why so much?" I told him that it would take at least 45 minutes, maybe a part or two and sales tax and that our labor rate was $100.00 per hour. The phone went CLICK. I have no idea how old the engine was and don't care. I'm sure he will find someone who will clean it....maybe even correctly. I'm sure he will even find someone to do it for less. He may even find someone who will do it today. But, it won't be us. We stay in business because some people ARE willing to pay more for our type of service. We provide a comfort level to those people and an assurance that the work was really done, the parts they were charged for were really used and IF we screwed up...we will stand behind it. If you don't need that comfort level, you have a choice...GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! The little hole in the wall down the street from us stays in business with customers who are only willing to pay $50.00 per hour. The last time he went to a service school was when Nixon was President. And he is constantly in small claims court with people. We have been in business since 1947 and have NEVER been sued.

 

[HeadHunt]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

It doesn't take long to check spark, does it. I mean, its easy to tell where no spark is. Plugs, coils, switchbox then stator. At that point, after only an hour of labor at the most, isn't it easy to tell the customer he is about to get into some serious bucks for switchboxes and stators. I know it is a huge risk to buy used stators or switchboxes, but the Merc. parts are so expensive new. Heck, you could try ten used ones from e-bay before you get near the price of a new one from Quicksilver.

 

[NMplayer]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

Internetoutboards, I think you are exactly right. On the other hand if I wanted that same confidence and assurance, and if I wanted good techs, most of you guys would tell me to go somewhere else because my motor is too old.

 

[NMplayer]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

rodbolt, your answer is fair, but when you compare the job you tried to do for the idiot in 03 to the job you just described, they sound remarkably similar. The prices do too.

 

[HeadHunt]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

I really don't want to offend anyone but I cannot get over the $100/hour thing. Example, we have an auto. dealership in town that is regarded as world class. If you ever went there you would know what I mean. They have a huge administrative staff, trained techs. and the most modern equipment you can get. Their maximun rate is $65/hour but on most work they do job pricing. For example, a timing belt replacement is a flat $220 on a V-8. It take almost 4 hours plus about $100 for parts but they have it down to an art and "job price it". Everyone around tries to go to this dealer and they cannot keep cars and trucks on the lot. That is customer service without ripping them off. One day, somewhere, a marine dealer will show us how its done.

 

[NMplayer]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

Headhunt, you maybe a little off base here. Most everybody has to have a car. Not everybody has to have a boat. My argument is not how much they charge for their work. Its just getting them to look at my motor

 

[rodbolt]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

capy<br /> that is what I try to do with everyone. sometimes with some of the old stuff I have no choice but water test it. cost money to take it to the ramp unload and load it. most the time in the first hour I can tell you if its worth fighting or not.<br /> in the case of a closed cumbustion chamber (most inline mercs) if I have low compression I go borrow a friends bore scope. I wont buy one cause its almost 600 dollars and I rarely need it. if the borescope does not reveal a major scuffing or piston crown erosion I will give a decarb a try. however if I stick the scope in the hole and its trashed in there its a whole different ball game. that is when I sit down with the customer and explain the options. I will also show him in the parts book all the possible problems we may have when I open it up. I also explain that once started I am on the clock regardless of the outcome. if it takes 10 hours to fight it apart and we find the block or crank is bad its his option to continue spending money or pay for what we have done and move on.<br /> cranks and rods were never cheap but anymore they are worse than stators .<br /> but I understand all you customers frustration. nothing like geting a motor that another so called "authorized" dealer did more damage to. then not only does he have to pay me but he is already mad cause he paid once. I learned years ago that when your paddling back in you never ever once will say"ole bubba tried to save me some money and I am paddling". nope you will say dang I paid all that money and I am paddling and I am gonna kick his arse when I get back.

 

[HeadHunt]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

NMplayer<br />Whats the diff. business is business even if you are making widgets.<br /><br />HeadHunt

 

[NMplayer]

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

Dear Lord, now I'm argueing for them. How many people use a boat in the winter? How many people use cars? Boats are luxury items, cars are not. Your car dealer has work all year. These guys may not. Specialization costs more