Harley Davidson

[bruceb58]

Re: Harley Davidson

Another issue with Harleys, is vibration. People tell me that they have balancing that they didn't have in the past, but I still see them all the time at traffic lights, with the mirrors shaking like crazy. That is not a feature that I want in a touring bike.
???

Balancing is only done on the rigid mounted motors. The one you saw was rubber mounted so they don't do it on those. Touring bikes like the one you saw with the rubber mounts are very smooth. Don't see how you can judge without actually riding on one.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Harley Davidson

Harleys sound great and do feel good to ride, but I prefer the rush of acceleration that very few harleys can come close to out of the box.

You are right...Harleys aren't for you obviously. They aren't for everyone. They are just a segment of the motorcycle market. Just like a sports car is different segment in the automotive market than an SUV.

They have plenty of power to kill you...just not as much as others.

 

[SuzukiChopper]

Re: Harley Davidson

Balancing is only done on the rigid mounted motors. The one you saw was rubber mounted so they don't do it on those. Touring bikes like the one you saw with the rubber mounts are very smooth. Don't see how you can judge without actually riding on one.

I agree, my FLHTC (touring bike) is like a Cadillac. My buddies Shovelhead on the other hand... holy carp. The only uncomfortable thing about my FLHTC is I'm a tall bugger and I think the designers are short. Even with pegs on the crash bar I found myself getting uncomfortable after an hour or hour and a half on the highway. My seat might have something to do with that too.

As for mileage/reliability, this thing I picked up had 90,000 miles on it, I had no history on the motor and I was consistently getting close to 200 miles out of a tank (40mpg). Not bad for an old 850lb motorcycle loaded with 200lbs of stuff and a 230lb person.

And the loopy Harley sound comes from the 45 degree angle of the pistons/jugs.

 

[KRH1326]

Re: Harley Davidson

double pop on the plugs
and the cylinders don't fire opposite each each other

edit: meaning spark on the exhaust and compression stroke

Nailed it right on the head, give that man a cigar!

Ahhhh, love that V-twin drumroll.


You know the old saying... "If I have to explain, blah blah blah."
For me it was what was there growing up. Dad and his buds, and cousins all came back from South East Asia in the way early 70's. All got Harley's and ran hard from there. They all had a history of hot rods, bikes, women and what not. Life went on.

I enjoyed the lifestyle. Tweaking, tinkering by day, then roaring into the night.

My FlatHead kept me busy, but GOD I LOVED THAT BIKE ! I really do miss it.

 

[KRH1326]

Re: Harley Davidson

More pics... after I wipe the tear from my eye.

 

[skargo]

Re: Harley Davidson

KRH1326,
that's nice!

 

[KRH1326]

Re: Harley Davidson

I bet your knucklehead will look like that one day!

 

[skargo]

Re: Harley Davidson

I bet your knucklehead will look like that one day!

I can only hope. I'll be an old salt then, and am going to paint it "bad luck" green

 

[Bass Tracker TX17]

Re: Harley Davidson

Always wanted one. Never could afford one.
With the love of a son, I have one now.
Just got rid of my long time ride Honda 77 750K.

New ride:
2000 1200 Sportster

 

[Paul Ryan]

Re: Harley Davidson

1980 XLH100, Last year of the bastard bikes...lol...I'm just shy a few months of have this for 20 years now. If I dont have this I will have something else, but I will always have one in my life. Been working the boat thing pretty hard the last few years so the bike is real pissed with the new toy.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Harley Davidson

I thought the sound was due to off set wrist pins?

45* v twin, they fire 45* apart too, well actually 315* starting with the #1 cylinder compression stroke,

Then the next time around its they fire on the exhaust stoke.

so you get:

compression fire, then 315* later the second compression fire

then 45* later exhaust fire, then 315* later the second exhaust fire


Rode a half dozen or so, never owned one.
Hauled dozens off the hiway on my flatbed.
Had Hondas and BMW's.
Used to ride my Honda and my SkiDoo on the test track that AMF built behind the engine plant in Wauwatosa.

Now, the track is gone, the fence is real, and the R&D center is buried in the "east loop" of the track, just west of Hwy 45. I grew up just 1800' north of there.

Surrounded by Harley workers, riders, mechanics for 30 years.

I just never liked the riding position or handling characteristics.

If anyone wants a different riding experience, try a BMW K series bike for an hour.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Harley Davidson

I never saw anything in Harleys. Their incredible unreliability, sluggish performance, outdated technology and horrible gas mileage always made me turn a blind eye.

let's see...fuel injection...ABS... need I go on? Reliability..I have a 96 and have never had a thing go wrong with mine...nothing!

I was with a group of friends at a lunch place one day and a guy drives up on a brand new japanese copycat bike. He was saying how buch better his brakes were, his engine...One of my friends asked him if those were the reasons he bought that bike instead of a Harley. His answer cracked up up..."I was too cheap to buy a Harley". Of course his bike is probably worth a 10th of what he paid where mine has retained a huge portion of its value.

And I wouldn't be caught dead riding a freaking scooter.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Harley Davidson

Then the next time around its they fire on the exhaust stoke.

Actually...one of the cylinders gets fired while it is in its intake stroke. The firing on the non compression stroke does nothing. It doesn't cause any of the sound either. Most cars that have a coil per cylinder or everyother cylinder have the same wasted spark setup.

45* v twin, they fire 45* apart too, well actually 315* starting with the #1 cylinder compression stroke,

Not sure where you get your info on this 45 315 firing scheme.

 

[SuzukiChopper]

Re: Harley Davidson

Not sure where you get your info on this 45 315 firing scheme. A spark occurs every 360 of the crank.

From HowStuffWorks:

A Harley engine has two pistons. The difference in the Harley engine is that the crankshaft has only one pin, and both piston rods connect to it. This design, combined with the V arrangement of the cylinders, means that the pistons cannot fire at even intervals. Instead of one piston firing every 360 degrees, a Harley engine goes like this:

A piston fires.
The next piston fires at 315 degrees.
There is a 405-degree gap.
A piston fires.
The next piston fires at 315 degrees.
There is a 405-degree gap.

 

[SuzukiChopper]

Re: Harley Davidson

BTW, figured I'd share a pic of the chopper (all pretty much computer controlled and the exhaust runs through the frame)...

The Harley is nothing special, just a stock 1989 FLHTC with the tour pack taken off.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Harley Davidson

A piston fires.
The next piston fires at 315 degrees.
There is a 405-degree gap.
A piston fires.
The next piston fires at 315 degrees.
There is a 405-degree gap.

That actually makes more sense. What is happening which is kinda weird is that when the rear cylinder fires, the front cylinder is in the middle of its exhaust stroke and when the front cylinder fires, the rear cylinder is in the very beginning of its intake stroke.

 

[Bronc Rider]

Re: Harley Davidson

Thanks for the "sound" explanation. The sound alone is enough reason for me to love them.
Harley's are not for everyone. The old ones that vibrated your fillings out are my favorite ones. Someone that rides a smooth sport bike will never understand the love either. It sounds cheesy but I always felt like I was riding a piece of history. No go-fast scooter will ever deliver that.
Going through all the nuts and bolts on a regular basis on the shovelhead never bothered me. I considered it love for the machine and it kept that AMF bike on the road reliably.

 

[86 century]

Re: Harley Davidson

The sound is because they fire 15deg apart. If you look real close at one of the old john deer twins the cadence and shake(pre evo) is almost the same. I am not a hater I own two a 73 sporty and 93 dyna the sporty is one of those work on it four hours ride two as for the dyna well i change the plugs and oil in the fall.

 

[skargo]

Re: Harley Davidson

Thanks for the "sound" explanation. The sound alone is enough reason for me to love them.
Harley's are not for everyone. The old ones that vibrated your fillings out are my favorite ones. Someone that rides a smooth sport bike will never understand the love either. It sounds cheesy but I always felt like I was riding a piece of history. No go-fast scooter will ever deliver that.
Going through all the nuts and bolts on a regular basis on the shovelhead never bothered me. I considered it love for the machine and it kept that AMF bike on the road reliably.

I rode a '67 sporty hardtail for an entire year as my only transportation. I rode it in the rain, snow, whatever, because I couldn't afford any other transportation. I was much younger, and doubt I could handle that these days.

Talk about rattling your fillings out.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Harley Davidson

Actually...one of the cylinders gets fired while it is in its intake stroke. The firing on the non compression stroke does nothing. It doesn't cause any of the sound either. Most cars that have a coil per cylinder or everyother cylinder have the same wasted spark setup.


Not sure where you get your info on this 45 315 firing scheme.

You're gonna have to show me how it could fire on the intake stroke, can't happen.
There are 360* in a revolution.


the 315 / 405 numbers are correct, if you are only talking about the compression stroke sparks.
But if you add in the exhaust stroke sparks, they happen at the numbers I listed.

And yes indeed, the exhaust stroke spark does give you half of the potato sound. There is still plenty of fuel in the system to make a pop.

This is what the Harley / Japanese manufacturer lawsuits were all about. The Japanese makers were duplicating the firing with their electronic ignition, and en-fringing on the sound patents that Harley had.

The original engines had but one set of points, pistons are 45* apart, spark generated on every compression and exhaust stroke. You do the math.

As for the efi and abs, along with most substantial performance improvements, all developed by BMW a decade earlier.