"Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

DHPMARINE · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

mellowyellow,I see what you mean.There is a limit as to what to invest in any broken motor.But the older the motor,the lower the limit.If I had a customer needing $1200 in repairs on a 10 year old motor? Yes.On a 25 year old motor ? No. DHP

mellowyellow · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

it's the same gamble/trap though isn't it DHP? heck, it's even worse on a newer motor since the customer expects more maybe? would you rather have a perfectly maintained 30 year old motor or an abused 5yo motor that was overheated and rebuilt on yur transom? I guess the point I'm trying to make is that age should not be the main criterea for accepting or not accepting a motor for service.

mellowyellow · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

PS. I own my own biz and just don't understand the logic of turning away ANY customers? must be nice... why wouldn't u just have an up front/in writing policy re: old motors where u do a mandatory over-all initial inspection of an old motor before u go ahead with any work or something like that? seems to me a customer would appreciate that kind of professional service...

TOHATSU GURU · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

HeadHunt, Authorized dealers have all gone to high labor rates in order to get the maximum warranty labor rate. Using Mercury as an example: A dealer is eligible to get $100.00 per hour from Mercury for warranty if he charges $100.00 per hour to a customer for non-warranty. There are other factors as well, but that's the biggie. We were at $75.00 per hour until September 1st. We were then informed that if we raised our shop rate to $100.00 we would receive $100.00 per hour in warranty per hour. If the manufacturers max rate would have stayed where it was we would still be at $75.00. Which still seems a little high to me! As to parts prices, spark plugs usually carry a 40% markup from the MSRP that the engine manufacturer gives to the dealer. That's not out of line. But, your point is well taken. That auto part store is buying those plugs at the same price or below what the engine manufacturer is paying. When you go to the auto parts store you are cutting at least one person out of the loop. We only buy sparkplugs from auto jobbers ourselves to take advantage of the price difference. I'm sure a lot of dealers buy that item cheap and sell high. But, there are only a few of those types of parts that you can swing that on. Some parts have 25% markups, some 50%.

Clams Canino · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

I'm still enjoying the thread. Great input from everyone. As for the ever rising dealer costs, we need to rememebr that in the age of EFI, and worse DFI, There is an ever rising need for expensive diagnostic equipment and training. That's the legitimate reason. The "other" reason is that pleasure boating is considered a "luxury". I've seen time and again where parts and labor on OHRV's, RV's, and Boats just run higher. Because they can. There's only two ways to boat: throw a lot of money at it, OR get the manual and come here to learn the tips and tricks. Some people are fortunate to have some innate mechanical instincts, the ability to see a "thingie" and divine how and why it works. You can't teach that part, but you can share the tips and tricks to make it all come together. -W

TOHATSU GURU · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

MellowYellow, It's hard to inspect something that won't start. You often can only identify one problem after another problem has been solved. But most shops are smart enough to do three things to begin with. 1. Check the gear oil 2. Check compression( if the starter will work) 3. Check for ignition for fire ( if the starter will work. If any one of those three indicate a problem, a tech should stop wrenching and start phoning.

Clams Canino · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

Originally posted by INTERNETOUTBOARDS: Using Mercury as an example: A dealer is eligible to get $100.00 per hour from Mercury for warranty if he charges $100.00 per hour to a customer for non-warranty.

Let me take you back to the "good old days". True story: At a Mercury Dealer meeting, a newer dealer timidly asked Big Carl if Mercury was planning to follow the lead of OMC and reimburse the dealers for warranty labor. True to form ECK responded: "Hell no! We provide free parts and that's bad enough! The outboards left my plant in perfect working order, so if the damn thing is broken either YOU broke it while installing it, or the CUSTOMER misused it and broke it, none of which is my fault!" He's my hero...

-W

mellowyellow · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

hard to inspect??? no, it's really easy... u r talking about trobleshooting. I ain't no pro, but wouldn't take me more than 30min to give someone a professional inspection and advice. detailed physical exam is #1 (really take the time) compression #2 spark #3 L/U #4 oh, but now I get your "dealer" point of view... ain't worth doing this cuz you can't add a part or 2 onto the bill?

NMplayer · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

I owned a chrysler for a while and I was Bubba. I didn't make much and I traded a camper for the boat. The thing that still gets me is that if that Chrysler doesn't run, I don't get to fish. In those days I would have paid the $1200 and put it on a credit card. Then I would've worked for several months to pay it off. I knew it was old, but regardless what the book says it worth, it can't be replaced with any degree of certainty for the same money. The age thing still doesn't make perfect sense to me. You guys assume tha a five year old motor is in better shape than a 20 year old motor. How many times have we seen on this forum a motor that has set up for five or ten years and before than grandpa only used it twice a year on a fresh water lake. It might have 50-100 hours on it maybe. How many posts have we seen on a 2000 EFI that's been used hard in the salt and is thrashed. Which one do you want to work on?

DHPMARINE · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

mellowyellow, I'm glad you find it so easy,sometimes I do also. The physical exam is a given.It starts from across the shop or yard when you 1st get the unit. Had a customer last season pull in and tell me what his 55 2cyl Johnson did.I walked him to his boat,pulled off the cover,and showed him where the rod was coming thru the block.No charge. Lower unit will tell you if there are large metal pieces or water in the oil.It wont tell you if it will stay in gear under load. Compression?Well after we fix the starter problem.Ok !Compression is good. Spark.None.Stator bad.Order and install stator.Now have input to the power pack,but no spark.Replace power pack,no spark #5 cylinder.Test further,replace coil.Good spark. Runs good.Lake test.Jumping out of forward.Adjust.Too late needs clutch dog and gears. This is bad on a 10 year motor,but on a 25 year old motor? Oops,I forgot how easy it is. Grin DHP

NMplayer · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

See thats where we disagree. The cost of repair is about the same whether its 10 or 25, (assuming its not some oddball that you can't get parts for) so what do you care? The value of the motor is how much use I get out of it. A worn out motor is worn out no matter how old it is. Your example said the compression was good to begin with so it doesn't matter.

HeadHunt · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

What about my case where I had one cylinder with low compression. I guess it had a stuck ring because after a decarb and the magic of Clams I now have about 120psi on all four. How many dealers would go the extra mile to do a decarb to try and eliminate low compression? HeadHunt

NMplayer · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

Headhunter, I think that's the point. If I had been the dealer I would have either told you how to do the decarb, or I would have told you that there is a small chance that I could do a decarb and it would fix it. It costs x amount of dollars to gamble, what do you want me to do?

HeadHunt · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

I guess that is all Joe Customer could ask for. I wish my authorized dealer had told me that (now I have to worry about taking him my Honda). I discovered that possibility on I-Boats!! It left me wondering if he thought I would just buy one of his new Honda's if I new my Merc. was shot. What good is a boat with a blown engine?

TOHATSU GURU · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

Ok. You guys win the arguement. Authorized dealers must be nuts to not want to get involved with seasoned( notice how I didn't say old piece of crap) outboards. There is a huge difference between a consumers perspective and that of a tech working at a dealership. I don't want you the consumer to blame me for adjusting your bill up as we find more and more wrong with it. But, you are guys are right. Dealers should tell you how to fix your engines yourself. We should also have magical wands to wave at engines to fix them in an hour without parts. Maybe we could provide free detailed estimates that would involve repairing the engine in order to know what was wrong with it to begin with. In fact , we should provide free mobile estimates. That way you wouldn't have to waste your time bringing that engine in to us. Lets even go further. We will pay you to let us have the privilege of working on your fabulous miracle of an outboard. Seriously, I know you guys just want to be treated fairly and with a little bit of dignity. And from your perspective( how could you have any other?)you aren't wrong. But until you have had some some guy blaming YOU for his engine woes, cut us a little slack.

HeadHunt · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

We were at $75.00 per hour until September 1st. We were then informed that if we raised our shop rate to $100.00 we would receive $100.00 per hour in warranty per hour. If the manufacturers max rate would have stayed where it was we would still be at $75.00. Which still seems a little high to me! I agree INTERNETOUTBOARDS, Most of the Brunswick people and their dealers must be nuts. HeadHunt

NMplayer · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

There's no win or lose here. Its just a discussion. I think the owner of the outboard ought to get to decide how much money its worth to him to fix it, not the dealer. I think the dealer is responsible for giving the owner the facts just as you guys have given them here. "This can lead to this....and this can lead to that and so on. So we can be talking about a good chunk of money." Nobody expects a miracle cure or diagnosis. Just do me the best job you can and be as honest with me as you can. Help me with this old motor because in many areas I can't find anyone who either knows how to work on it or that will even try. I have never seen the Ford dealer that wouldn't work on a 65 mustang. If brand loyaly means anything to the older companies then they ought to look at this again.

Clams Canino · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

Originally posted by HeadHunt: We were at $75.00 per hour until September 1st. We were then informed that if we raised our shop rate to $100.00 we would receive $100.00 per hour in warranty per hour. If the manufacturers max rate would have stayed where it was we would still be at $75.00. Which still seems a little high to me! I agree INTERNETOUTBOARDS, Most of the Brunswick people and their dealers must be nuts. HeadHunt

Actually, this post is enlightening. Follow the money. It seems the dealers *have* to raise the labor rates to Bubba, so that they can extract the maximum dollar from Brunswick for warranty work. Goes back to my original opinion that dealers are great for warranty work, but independants look better as the motor ages, and become the only way to go once they get "old". Also... regarding the decarb thing. We're hitting the point in time where some of the dealer techs don't know that most of the old crossflow Mercs were prone to carbon sticking rings. Hear me people... If you own an inline Merc made between the end of WW2 and the beginning of the loopers - decarb it at least every season. Decarb it thrice of you don't know it's history. Stuck rings lead in time to expensive mechanical failure. Headhunt got real lucky that he caught it early because another problem made him look. -W

DHPMARINE · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

NMplayer, Did you just sum up alot of what I've been saying ? "You can't find anyone who either knows how to work on it or that will even try" So why ask me to do the best I can,when I tell you to take it to a specialist? Don't test my loyalty by the age of your motor.I may have a few years on it. DHP,still liking this post,Star Date xxxxxx

Rabbitdawghunter · Jan 27, 2005

Re: "Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

Internet, with that kind of attitude I guess there will always be work for the independant mechanic!

"Authorized Dealers?" - Think Twice

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