Inboard outboard air cooled engine

[maxum247]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Thats great! Oh did you remove the rectifier from the tractor for the boat?

Took the whole wiring harness, and everything that attached to it, so I think I'm ok there.

 

[maxum247]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Here's where I am on the rudder. It is different that's for sure. Not quite what I had planned, I may still reshape it a little not sure yet. Not sure what shape I'll make the rudder plate yet, kind of thinking of the shape of the rudders used on alot of the bigger factory boats over the years. Kind of a V shape, wider at the top and narrower at the bottom, with the top and bottom squared off.

Didn't think the legs from the BBQ grill would be so sturdy, had a time bending it to the shape that it is now, slightly different than it was in the beginning. Had to add some length to the section where the rudder plate will mount. I used a peice of three inch long galvanized pipe to join the two peices, that was a job trying to drive the two peices together. I've got the proof! I missed on one swing and got myself right in the ribs. "Man that smart's!"

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Looking good maxum! Just a couple of general rudder observations. From that last rear three-quarters pic of your boat hull and LU setting up and drying, you can really see that your boat has a lot of shape to the hull. Having that, your built up wooden LU mounting as well as your LU of course is going to give that craft a lot of directional stability under way. This in turn is going to require a fairly hefty rudder with big surface area to overcome those factors enough to change your course easily. Add to that the fact the rudder doesn't have a prop on it (well duh) to help with course changes through deflected propulsion....and I would say you are going to have to make sure that rudder is good and strong -- both at the boat mounting, and from the handle to the rudder surface -- cuz you may have to tug on it pretty good.

Very long winded way of respectfully suggesting don't underestimate the forces acting on the rudder and build er up accordingly! I'll be intrigued to know how much force is required to deflect it at speed.
And a last thought -- what's the distance from the top of your transom to the bottom of the skeg? Reason I ask is that if your rudder goes to the bottom of the skeg you will benefit from some prop wash helping you turn. Where the tradeoff is between that and having too much wetted surface causing drag, flutter, and other problems at speed, I don't know. OK -- enough babbling -- it's obviously time for bed!

 

[maxum247]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Looking good maxum! Just a couple of general rudder observations. From that last rear three-quarters pic of your boat hull and LU setting up and drying, you can really see that your boat has a lot of shape to the hull. Having that, your built up wooden LU mounting as well as your LU of course is going to give that craft a lot of directional stability under way. This in turn is going to require a fairly hefty rudder with big surface area to overcome those factors enough to change your course easily. Add to that the fact the rudder doesn't have a prop on it (well duh) to help with course changes through deflected propulsion....and I would say you are going to have to make sure that rudder is good and strong -- both at the boat mounting, and from the handle to the rudder surface -- cuz you may have to tug on it pretty good.

Very long winded way of respectfully suggesting don't underestimate the forces acting on the rudder and build er up accordingly! I'll be intrigued to know how much force is required to deflect it at speed.
And a last thought -- what's the distance from the top of your transom to the bottom of the skeg? Reason I ask is that if your rudder goes to the bottom of the skeg you will benefit from some prop wash helping you turn. Where the tradeoff is between that and having too much wetted surface causing drag, flutter, and other problems at speed, I don't know. OK -- enough babbling -- it's obviously time for bed!

There's about 29 inches from the top of the transom to the bottom of the skeg. The rudder will sit just about level with the bottom of the skeg or just a little above it as far as I can tell right now. Will be able to tell more on that when I do a test mount tomorrow. It will be interesting to see how the "SHAKER" handles at speed! "But I may be just as concerned about seeing five of everything!"

Here's a picture of my first try, and of my redesign, you'll be able to see the difference pretty clearly. Change didn't affect rudder height, but did effect the height of the tiller handle, lowered it down, it was way too high above the boat.

Here's the style I decided for the rudder.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

IMO, A FINE JOB!, but the rudder itself, don't look big enuff? But, what do I know I never built a "SHAKER"?

 

[maxum247]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

IMO, A FINE JOB!, but the rudder itself, don't look big enuff? But, what do I know I never built a "SHAKER"?

Guess I won't know for sure if the rudder is the right size or not until I take the boat out for the first time. If too small, I'll keep trying until I get it right!

 

[MikDee]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Guess I won't know for sure if the rudder is the right size or not until I take the boat out for the first time. If too small, I'll keep trying until I get it right!

That's the Spirit! That's all you can do By the way, just curious what ya got to fasten it too the hull with?

 

[maxum247]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

That's the Spirit! That's all you can do By the way, just curious what ya got to fasten it too the hull with?

Bought some stainless eye bolts 1/4 inch, not very heafty but what I could get. And some 1/2 inch stainless bolts with nylon locking nuts to hold it all together. I'd rather have galvanized eye bolts that are sold eye not just bent with the end open.

Whats with washers today? EveRy stainless washer regardless of size is too large for the size of the bolt, put it on the bolt and the hole is large enough that the washer crushes off to one side. Was going to use stainless washers as a sort of bearing for the eye bolts but couldn't get one that would center the bolt. Is there a reason for this?

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Another dimension to fiddle with is the amount of rudder leading edge protruding forward of the rudder post. Your current design has a little sticking forward and you see this in some aircraft control surface designs too. ​

What's good about having some leading edge protruding is it will actually help reduce the level of resistance on the tiller because it's going to be deflected into the oncoming stream of water, which will in turn try to force it all the way over, thus helping to balance the forces required to push the trailing edge against the water. Here, maybe a pic is clearer than my rambling. These are top view drawings.​

Note in the second drawing how the resisting and assisting forces start to equalize as the rudder post (essentially the fulcrum in this teeter totter) is moved rearward. You could use this to your advantage. The problem of course as you point out you can't really know what's good except by trial and error.​

 

[MikDee]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Bought some stainless eye bolts 1/4 inch, not very heafty but what I could get. And some 1/2 inch stainless bolts with nylon locking nuts to hold it all together. I'd rather have galvanized eye bolts that are sold eye not just bent with the end open.

Whats with washers today? Evey stainless washer regardless of size is too large for the size of the bolt, put it on the bolt and the hole is large enough that the washer crushes off to one side. Was going to use stainless washers as a sort of bearing for the eye bolts but couldn't get one that would center the bolt. Is there a reason for this?

Whats wrong with using these hangers? look at all the pics, & specs here, They're usually available in most hardware stores, & Home Depot type stores, You can get them close to the size you need, they can be used vertical, or horizontal, you can get them galvanized, they're heavier made then an eyebolt, and they're made with a 3/8" threaded socket to fasten to a matching back plate, these are just a sample of whats available:
"http://www.warwickhanger.com/catalog/pipe-hangers/copper-tubing/split-ring-hangers/"

and these are the matching wall plates:
"http://www.erico.com/public/library/Fixing-MFFUSCat/365M-365.pdf"

 

[4.0l sahara]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

here is how to do the wiring.

 

[Lone Duck]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Does anyone know what I mean when I talk about the setup used to convert a flatbed truck to a stakeside? 1/2 of the hinge is a flat bar with an eye on the end. the other 1/2 is a flat bar with a pin on the end. The pin drops into the eye and presto you have a pivot point or hinge. I just forget what they are called. Put the 2 eyes on the transom. 2 pins on the rudder shaft just below the tiller and drop it together. You use wood from the rudder right up to the tiller handle. to make it easier to attach your hardware to it. It could all be wood for that matter. and shaped from the width of the rudder gradualy all the way up to the size of tiller handle. It would give more turning effect than a round shaft from rudder to handle. Scoutabout: has it right about the leading edge. it is wood so you can start big and shave it back till you have the right balance so the forces created by the prop and your forward motion eases the tension on the rudder in a turn. Then you are not pulling on the tiller for dear life while being shook to death from the shaker. Actualy I don't think the vibration is going to be that bad.

 

[Lone Duck]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

here is how to do the wiring.

That is about right except where is the rectifier to go from stator through circut to batt. for charging?

 

[maxum247]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Ok! I'm a little confused as to why the gas needs to be grounded to the selonoid? It's in a plastic tank and a rubber gas line goes to the engine. The reason I ask this question is because some outboard tanks are metal and some are plastic and aren't grounded to anything, the hose that goes to the engine is rubber same as on my boat engine. I get everything else but not the gas. Sorry to be so hard headed, just don't understand this stuff!
Something to do with static electricity, but what gets me is the gas is in plastic?

 

[maxum247]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Does anyone know what I mean when I talk about the setup used to convert a flatbed truck to a stakeside? 1/2 of the hinge is a flat bar with an eye on the end. the other 1/2 is a flat bar with a pin on the end. The pin drops into the eye and presto you have a pivot point or hinge. I just forget what they are called. Put the 2 eyes on the transom. 2 pins on the rudder shaft just below the tiller and drop it together. You use wood from the rudder right up to the tiller handle. to make it easier to attach your hardware to it. It could all be wood for that matter. and shaped from the width of the rudder gradualy all the way up to the size of tiller handle. It would give more turning effect than a round shaft from rudder to handle. Scoutabout: has it right about the leading edge. it is wood so you can start big and shave it back till you have the right balance so the forces created by the prop and your forward motion eases the tension on the rudder in a turn. Then you are not pulling on the tiller for dear life while being shook to death from the shaker. Actualy I don't think the vibration is going to be that bad.

Can't think of the name of those rudder attachments at the moment either but I do know what your talking about. I'm gonna do some carving on the rudder so it will slice thru the water without too much resistance, I hope.

Is it pental hooks?

 

[Lone Duck]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Ok! I'm a little confused as to why the gas needs to be grounded to the selonoid? It's in a plastic tank and a rubber gas line goes to the engine. The reason I ask this question is because some outboard tanks are metal and some are plastic and aren't grounded to anything, the hose that goes to the engine is rubber same as on my boat engine. I get everything else but not the gas. Sorry to be so hard headed, just don't understand this stuff!
Something to do with static electricity, but what gets me is the gas is in plastic?

At some point fuel tank is attached to boat with metal (screws or frame for tank. Or your cap ) Just 1 static spark at the wrong time & you & shaker will become fliers. Better safe than sorry. Talk to tasadaddy,or silvertip or DonS and see what they think. I was wrong once before I just can't remember when.

 

[maxum247]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

At some point fuel tank is attached to boat with metal (screws or frame for tank. Or your cap ) Just 1 static spark at the wrong time & you & shaker will become fliers. Better safe than sorry. Talk to tasadaddy,or silvertip or DonS and see what they think. I was wrong once before I just can't remember when.

Can you explain the "CAP" to me please? The tank is mounted on a metal bracket fastened to the stern which is wood , so I would put a ground wire to the metal frame the tank is mounted to?

 

[Lone Duck]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Can you explain the "CAP" to me please? The tank is mounted on a metal bracket fastened to the stern which is wood , so I would put a ground wire to the metal frame the tank is mounted to?

Some plastic tanks have a metal Gas cap. Yes ground frame. And hey! Your doing a teriffic job. Thanks for letting me participate.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Can't think of the name of those rudder attachments at the moment either but I do know what your talking about. I'm gonna do some carving on the rudder so it will slice thru the water without too much resistance, I hope.

Is it pental hooks?

Slice the rudder? scoutabout just said you did the right thing with the design of the rudder why would you slice it up?

 

[maxum247]

Re: Inboard outboard air cooled engine

Some plastic tanks have a metal Gas cap. Yes ground frame. And hey! Your doing a teriffic job. Thanks for letting me participate.

I can't report much progress on the ole "Shaker" today turned out to be a honey do day!
Did manage to spend $21 dollars on stainless at the hardware store today. I bolted all the peices of the rudder together tonight, but that's about it.